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  1. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I think it is much to the contrary, we are more open-minded. If it was proven that

    those buildings fell from high temp jet fuel fires it would prove the other side wrong. Therefore they assume, if the other side is wrong about that part of the puzzle then it can be assumed they are wrong about everything else too. It means that they don’t have to answer any of the other hard questions. They do not have to look any further into the case. They can just keep beating their chests that they were correct about the way the buildings fell so all follow-on questions are mute because scientists solved the case. To me that is closed-mindedness.

    Doing investigative work requires an open mind. It is tiresome and frustrating. Most people just want to find an answer. When they solve pieces of the puzzle they want to put a rest to the case. Well has anyone considered that there may have been elements within our government that knew of this attack and worked on the sidelines, not with them, but in a way allowed it to happen? Has anyone considered that if explosives were not used it does not totally exonerate all rogue elements of our government?

    It was our impression that those two building would withstand a direct hit by a plane of that size. Maybe they thought the damage would be far less. What I see is a lack of questions from those that think science solved all of the events of that day. You never see guys like Scrog asking questions or even thinking outside the scientific box. He thinks solving one small piece of the puzzle allows him to turn his brain off and beat his chest.

    Two things noted about Scrog and Mark:
    Scrog has said that suspecting our government was complicit in this attack is unpatriotic.
    Mark lumps those that want 911 questions answered with those that doubt the lunar landing. That is “A Giant Leap.”

    Broad brushes equal closed & shallow mindedness.
    This post takes the cake.

    Keeping an open mind to do investigative work first requires that you're QUALIFIED in a field thats relevant to the investigation.

    The fact about most conspiracy theorist is that their knowledge on any scientific principle combined wouldn't equal a Associates degree in mechanical engineering.

    They critique level headed individuals for their lack of open mindedness but immediately clamp on to any crazy conspiracy and then argue it as truth citing more crazy conspiracy to back up their assertion.

    They arm chair engineer the events of the day to make themselves feel more self important, add a context to their empty existence and proclaim a higher status over people who really just have better things to do with their time.

    It reminds me of a persone who has maybe been verbally abused, called stupid, picked on and one day decides to gather up enough confidence to start thinking for his self.

    But the first idea he siezes upon his the goofiest most absurd concept anyone could imagine but because he's not used to critical thought he goes all in and winds up worse off when he started.

  2. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    No, no, I'll solve most of the puzzle, in fact. All I need is someone willing to read and apply common sense. That's what I've asked of Roy.

    If you are so investigative, why do you ignore the science link?. Why do you ignore the plain photo evidence I've posted that shows that you folks are holding up pictures of non-molten metal AS molten metal, and ignoring clear photo evidence of the buildings not exactly falling in thier footprint but instead flinging off a crapload of debris during the collapse?

    It seems that your powers of observation are similar to your brand of "truth".

    You ignored both, then with a straight face charge others with not considering or debating things properly.

    As the robot on Lost in Space use to say, that does not compute.

    What I said was that you were doing a dis-service to the families of the victims. But feel free to put words in my mouth as you have often done in this very topic. The first time, it wasn't even pointed out by me!

    Clearly, intellectually dishonest folks.
    My post flew right over your head. I said if you are correct about no explosives being used to bring those buildings down it is not the end of the story as you would like it to be. There are many more questions to answer.

    As for you implying that investigating this is “unpatriotic” just reread your post #209. Besides, how would uncovering that there were other factions involved in this do a disservice to the families?

  3. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    My post flew right over your head. I said if you are correct about no explosives being used to bring those buildings down it is not the end of the story as you would like it to be. There are many more questions to answer.

    As for you implying that investigating this is “unpatriotic” just reread your post #209. Besides, how would uncovering that there were other factions involved in this do a disservice to the families?
    Because you are claiming that the people who died in the plane that hit the Pentagon weren't even there.

    I never said it was the end. My idea is to try and take one thing at a time, put it to rest, then take on the next thing.

    Your idea is to change the subject.

    You also seem to believe that the preservation of materials was more important than trying to rescue survivors as once that process began, a lot of metal cutting ensued. Yes? That means that the evidence, whether in hanger 17 at JFK or in China was compromised from that very moment.

    Besides, as I've said, debris is further irrelevent not only because it was compromised from the word go, but also because it would not even demonstrate your case if molten steel were found. I suggest doing a little INVESTIGATIVE (you know, that thing you say you are good at) work in the area of thermite demo charges, and where we currently stand with the technology.

    By the way, the sites that debunk the "truther" sites have youtube videos to show you on the thermite matter. Just your cup of tea!

    http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

    Ok, so just for giggles, lets say you agree that the buildings fell to something other than demo charges. What is the next thing you would like to discuss?

    Let's try to keep politics out of it. Just what happened.
    Last edited by scrogdog; 10-05-2012 at 01:21 PM.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  4. #238
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    Im a little confused. Do you guys think the government planted explosives in the buildings and set them off after the jets crashed into the buildings? If this is the theory, what do you think was the motive for doing this?

  5. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    No, no, I'll solve most of the puzzle, in fact. All I need is someone willing to read and apply common sense. That's what I've asked of Roy.

    If you are so investigative, why do you ignore the science link?. Why do you ignore the plain photo evidence I've posted that shows that you folks are holding up pictures of non-molten metal AS molten metal, and ignoring clear photo evidence of the buildings not exactly falling in thier footprint but instead flinging off a crapload of debris during the collapse?

    It seems that your powers of observation are similar to your brand of "truth".

    You ignored both, then with a straight face charge others with not considering or debating things properly.

    As the robot on Lost in Space use to say, that does not compute.

    What I said was that you were doing a dis-service to the families of the victims. But feel free to put words in my mouth as you have often done in this very topic. The first time, it wasn't even pointed out by me!

    Clearly, intellectually dishonest folks.
    Oh save it already. You're beginning to sound like a broken record. I have read everything you posted long before you ever did, except for the building 7 document that says one lone column on the far east side of the building caused global collapse yet gives no explanation of how the damage somehow migrated from the center of the building to the port side to weaken the single column that could bring the whole building down... Your refusal to debate points shows your incapability of independent thought. I have never seen someone use so many words to say nothing. And to say say that those of us who question this 911 fairy tale are somehow doing the families who lost loved ones in these attacks a disservice is infuriating. So much so that it is taking great restraint on my part not to get banned from this site. Luckily, the fact that I understand that you are in a zombified somnambulant state of existence has a calming effect.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  6. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Because you are claiming that the people who died in the plane that hit the Pentagon weren't even there.

    I never said it was the end. My idea is to try and take one thing at a time, put it to rest, then take on the next thing.

    Your idea is to change the subject.

    You also seem to believe that the preservation of materials was more important than trying to rescue survivors as once that process began, a lot of metal cutting ensued. Yes? That means that the evidence, whether in hanger 17 at JFK or in China was compromised from that very moment.

    Besides, as I've said, debris is further irrelevent not only because it was compromised from the word go, but also because it would not even demonstrate your case if molten steel were found. I suggest doing a little INVESTIGATIVE (you know, that thing you say you are good at) work in the area of thermite demo charges, and where we currently stand with the technology.

    By the way, the sites that debunk the "truther" sites have youtube videos to show you on the thermite matter. Just your cup of tea!

    http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

    Ok, so just for giggles, lets say you agree that the buildings fell to something other than demo charges. What is the next thing you would like to discuss?

    Let's try to keep politics out of it. Just what happened.
    Boy am I glad you posted this. Shows just how little you pay attention. You say no one is reading your sources while the first post I made absolutely destroys everything in this video. Its also a perfect example of how dullards are memorized by a bunch of formulas when in reality its a load of crap. Here's one for you:

    2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe
    (X= Y3 AB)
    (27 + 80) g = 107 g of Al
    0.5*4.2 kg = 2.1 kg = 4.8 lb
    20.5 cc Al and 30.5 cc Fe2O3 weighs (54+160) g = 214 g. = You have no idea what you're talking about ^100
    The below video is sufficient in annihilating all points made in your video regarding thermite. Done with a physical experiment and not just a bunch of stupid formulas meant to bamboozle the likes of you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5d5iIoCiI8g
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  7. #241
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    Lol!

    So, demonstrated that you can't read AGAIN!

    What the heck is wrong with you? Show me what formulas you speak of because what I presented DID NOT EVEN USE THEM TO MAKE ITS POINT!

    Hilarious!

    These are your critical thinking invesitgatiors! Lmao!

  8. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    What is the next thing you would like to discuss?
    Explain the many explosions witnessed by all the people in and near those buildings.

  9. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Explain the many explosions witnessed by all the people in and near those buildings.
    While there is no way to absolutely state what cuased all of the explosions after the initial damage to the buildings, there have been rational explainations as to what all most likely were. None of the U.S. government conspiracy theories about any of the explosions are rational for any reason nor for how they would have been conducted.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #244
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    First off, thermite charges DO NOT EXPLODE.

    Another documented FACT that you missed by not reading what I've posted. How do you figure that makes you "open minded" and investigative? Lol

    So, there is no need to explain it in terms of this discussion, because no matter what made the sounds, it was most certainly NOT thermite.

    Again, this is a matter if common knowledge, you don't need to read esoteric science formulas to know this. Freely available info you can get anywhere.

    Thermite burns, like black powder.

    But since you FLATLY REFUSE to read what the other side even says, mr investigator, you are welcome to use your amazing investigative powers and look it up!

    My guess, probably metal buckling. Metal pops like that when stressed similar to all the pops and groans one hears from stressed metal when a ship sinks.

    But like I said, whatever they were is irrelevent in terms of this discussion as it was not thermite.

  11. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    While there is no way to absolutely state what cuased all of the explosions after the initial damage to the buildings, there have been rational explanations as to what all most likely were.
    So what are the “rational explanations"?

    None of the U.S. government conspiracy theories about any of the explosions are rational for any reason nor for how they would have been conducted.
    Radio controlled detonation is one way. And, have the white vans that were seen visiting the WTC between 3:00am and 5:00am in late Aug. to early Sept. ever identified?

    This is my point. Every single scrap of evidence must be answered for, but instead we dismiss investigating because we think rogue elements in our govt couldn’t/wouldn’t do that. Are we also not interested in the Israelis that were seen celebrating with each other while they watched and videoed the WTC come down? The fact that they worked for a domestic Israeli spy organization?

    Instead of always looking at our Govt for the conspiracy why not look at the country that benefited from 911 the most. I wouldn’t put it past them. It is a fact that israel does not recognize borders when fighting thier fight.

  12. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    First off, thermite charges DO NOT EXPLODE.

    Another documented FACT that you missed by not reading what I've posted. How do you figure that makes you "open minded" and investigative? Lol

    So, there is no need to explain it in terms of this discussion, because no matter what made the sounds, it was most certainly NOT thermite.

    Again, this is a matter if common knowledge, you don't need to read esoteric science formulas to know this. Freely available info you can get anywhere.

    Thermite burns, like black powder.

    But since you FLATLY REFUSE to read what the other side even says, mr investigator, you are welcome to use your amazing investigative powers and look it up!

    My guess, probably metal buckling. Metal pops like that when stressed similar to all the pops and groans one hears from stressed metal when a ship sinks.

    But like I said, whatever they were is irrelevent in terms of this discussion as it was not thermite.
    You do a lot of dancing. I did not mention thermite or think it caused explosions. You infer you investigated this matter completely. Well, what caused them?

    Or is your best shot: “My guess, probably metal buckling.” And that explanation is OK with you? NO science needed this time?

  13. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    So what are the “rational explanations"?



    Radio controlled detonation is one way. And, have the white vans that were seen visiting the WTC between 3:00am and 5:00am in late Aug. to early Sept. ever identified?

    This is my point. Every single scrap of evidence must be answered for, but instead we dismiss investigating because we think rogue elements in our govt couldn’t/wouldn’t do that. Are we also not interested in the Israelis that were seen celebrating with each other while they watched and videoed the WTC come down? The fact that they worked for a domestic Israeli spy organization?

    Instead of always looking at our Govt for the conspiracy why not look at the country that benefited from 911 the most. I wouldn’t put it past them. It is a fact that israel does not recognize borders when fighting thier fight.
    You obviously are choosing to stay ignorant of the many rational explainations of items in the buildings that could very well explode under intense heat that have been stated over and over and over again. If you choose to stay igorant, that is your problem. Since ignorance is your problem, please be responsible about your continued self inflicted ignorance.

    Yes, yes....we can all come up with coulda, mighta scenarios, but none of them are rational. Why would any of the conspiracies have been implimented? When could any of the conspiracy theories have been set up? How would the conspirers have known to set up the detonations and where? Like I said; no rational.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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