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  1. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Your version of a adequate answer appears to be anything that cant be confirmed by eyewitness accounts, scientific objective data or rational explanations.

    Did you read the part of my post that mentioned personality disorders ????
    This is a typical response from someone who is running and hiding from the subject. They throw insults rather than engaging in the discussion.

    Who cares what I think is an adequate answer? Give it a shot. Take a stab at any of the questions just posed. I’m not the only judge in the room.

    Or is there another reason for you being on this thread?

  2. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    This is a typical response from someone who is running and hiding from the subject. They throw insults rather than engaging in the discussion.

    Who cares what I think is an adequate answer? Give it a shot. Take a stab at any of the questions just posed. I’m not the only judge in the room.

    Or is there another reason for you being on this thread?
    To point out the complete waste of time and energy that is buying into conspiracies when there are so many other productive things to do.

    I already pointed out why it's absolutely a waste of time to debate people who are neck deep in conspiracies.

    I actually believe like most level headed people that large aircrafts traveling at over 400 knots loaded with jet fuel brought the buildings down.

    Go figure.

  3. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    To point out the complete waste of time and energy that is buying into conspiracies when there are so many other productive things to do.

    I already pointed out why it's absolutely a waste of time to debate people who are neck deep in conspiracies.

    I actually believe like most level headed people that large aircrafts traveling at over 400 knots loaded with jet fuel brought the buildings down.

    Go figure.
    Just as I thought. You know little to nothing about that day other what "level headed people" told you you should know.

  4. #225
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    Its wrestling pith a pig Brian...both of you will get dirty, but Six will like it. Don't feed the troll!
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  5. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Why was the investigation stonewalled for a year? Why were all videos from local buildings around the pentagon confiscated and remain so to this day?
    A full year is plenty of time to destroy all the remaining evidence before anyone can get a closer look. This fact, and the fact Brian mentioned about the pentagon surveillance tapes (as well as the gas station tapes) are huge tells. If there were nothing to hide why do these things? This is one that idiot "debunkers" always avoid because there is no controlled pundit to give them the answer. "Debunkers" never have any independent thoughts or questions of their own. This is why Scrog melted down, you can only say the same general thing so many different ways before you get to "I'm done with you" which is code for "I can't answer any of your questions". And believe me, thats where it always ends up, "I'm done with you". If I only had a dollar for every time a 911 debate ends with that exact phrase.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

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  6. #227
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    Looks like I need to add the names of all the "truthers"(LOL) and moon landing deniers to the list of names of people who argued the plane couldn't take off in the "plane on a conveyor" thread from a few years ago.

    The list is of people whose opinion on anything requiring scientific understanding, and/or critical thought, is highly suspect, and should be ignored.

    Most of them are so closed minded, and ideologically invested in their delusional world view, that it isn't even worth wasting time speaking to them.

    The tragic thing is that many of them are otherwise not stupid people, not like the "chemtrail" morons anyway.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #228
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    You haven't yet addresses the two lies I've already caught you at.

    I'm waiting for Roy. If he agrees I will will tear apart your case point by point. Using nothing more than what I have already posted.

    That is why "truthers" change the subject when caught lying.

    If you can't even address the demonstrable lies, what is the quality of the rest if your case?

    As I said, you had all the debris that you wanted at the pentagon. Clear photo evidence of air craft parts all over the place, yet your analysis concluded a missile hit it. Lmao!

  8. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Looks like I need to add the names of all the "truthers"(LOL) and moon landing deniers to the list of names of people who argued the plane couldn't take off in the "plane on a conveyor" thread from a few years ago.

    The list is of people whose opinion on anything requiring scientific understanding, and/or critical thought, is highly suspect, and should be ignored.

    Most of them are so closed minded, and ideologically invested in their delusional world view, that it isn't even worth wasting time speaking to them.

    The tragic thing is that many of them are otherwise not stupid people, not like the "chemtrail" morons anyway.
    The best part is when they call for "common sense".
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  9. #230
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    Here are a whole bunch of conspiracies that turned out not to be theories. Now all you wanks should open your mouth and insert your foot!

    63 BC The second Catiline conspiracy
    Failed assassination of Cicero on the morning of November 7 and plans to take control of the government through arson and slaughter of the senators.
    44 BC Caesar assassination plot
    On March 15, 44 BC, Julius Caesar was assassinated by a conspiracy that included his friend Brutus.

    1600s
    1605 The Gunpowder Plot
    An attempt by a group of provincial English Catholic extremists to kill King James I of England, his family, and most of the Protestant aristocracy in one attack by blowing up the Houses of Parliament during the State Opening. Guy Fawkes Day is named after one of the (lesser) conspirators and is celebrated with fireworks. Some modern historians believe the plot may have been either orchestrated or allowed to run its course by the Protestant elite for propaganda value. See also: Popish Plot.

    1700's
    1763 Small pox infected blankets given to Native Americans
    In response to the 1763 uprising known as Pontiac's Rebellion, Jeffrey Amherst, 1st Baron Amherst suggested using smallpox as a weapon for ending the rebellion. In a series of letters to his subordinate Colonel Henry Bouquet, the two men discussed the possibility of infecting the attacking Indians with smallpox through gifts of blankets that had been exposed to the disease. Apparently unbeknownst to both Amherst and Bouquet, the commander at Fort Pitt had already attempted this very tactic. Although Amherst's name is usually connected with this germ warfare because he was the overall commander and because of his correspondence with Bouquet, evidence appears to indicate that the attempt was made without Amherst's prior knowledge. See Pontiac's Rebellion for references and details.

    1800's
    1810 to 1850 the Underground Railroad
    The Underground Railroad was a network of clandestine routes by which African slaves in the United States escaped to freedom, with the aid of abolitionists. It consisted of clandestine routes, transportation, meeting points, and safe houses maintained by sympathizers. These individuals were organized into small groups who, for the purpose of maintaining secrecy, knew only of connecting "stations" along the route.
    1865 The Assassination of President Abraham Lincoln
    President Lincoln was murdered by John Wilkes Booth but Booth was involved in a larger conspiracy to kill Lincoln and several members of his cabinet.
    1894 The Dreyfus affair
    In 1894 Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish officer in the French army, was convicted of treason. Dreyfus was innocent; the conviction rested on false documents, and when officials realised this they attempted a cover up. The writer Émile Zola exposed the affair.
    1894 Overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii
    Queen Lili'uokalani was selected as the successor to King Kalākaua by Kalākaua upon his election in 1874. During her brother's reign the monarchy was left impotent by the Bayonet Constitution of 1887. In 1893, American businessmen organized in response to an attempt by Lili'uokalani to subvert the 1887 constitution, and took over the government of the Kingdom of Hawai'i. American troops aboard the USS Boston landed in Honolulu to protect American lives and property, while Sanford B. Dole and Lorrin A. Thurston's Committee of Safety, a 13 member council of businessmen, organized the Honolulu Rifles to depose Queen Lili'uokalani. The overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawai'i and the subsequent annexation of Hawai'i are sometimes cited as examples of American imperialism.
    1898-1913 Western Water Rights: Los Angeles vs. Owens Valley
    The agent of the Bureau was a close friend of Eaton, so Eaton had access to inside information about water rights. Eaton bought land as a private citizen, hoping to sell it back to Los Angeles at a vast profit. Eaton lobbied Theodore Roosevelt and got the local irrigation system cancelled. Mulholland misled residents of the Owens Valley, by claiming that Los Angeles would take water only for domestic purposes, not for irrigation. By 1905, through purchases and bribery, Los Angeles purchased enough water rights to enable the aqueduct. The aqueduct was sold to the citizens of Los Angeles as vital to the growth of the city. However, unknown to the public, the initial water would be used to irrigate the San Fernando Valley, north of the city. A syndicate of investors (again, close friends of Eaton, including Harrison Gray Otis) bought up large tracts of land in the San Fernando Valley with this inside information. This syndicate made substantial efforts to the passage of the bond issue that funded the aqueduct including creating a false drought (by manipulating rainfall totals) and publishing scare articles in the Los Angeles Times. See California Water Wars.

    1900's
    1913 Federal Reserve Act
    Claimed to have been written by Paul Warburg. Passed by quorum remaining as many left for Christmas break. Planned in secret on Jekyll Island some 3 years earlier1910. See among other sources "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin; Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins
    1919 Black Sox Scandal
    During the 1919 World Series, Eight members of the Chicago franchise conspired with gamblers to intentionally lose games.
    1930's National Crime Syndicate
    1932 General Motors streetcar conspiracy
    Before WWII, Los Angeles had the largest electric trolley system in the world. It is generally believed that General Motors, Firestone Tire and Rubber, Standard Oil, and National City Lines conspired to eliminate it. A federal court decided that the companies had violated the Sherman Antitrust Act and each was "fined" the paltry sum of $5,000. Company officials were also found guilty and fined one dollar each.
    1932 to 1972 Tuskegee Syphilis Study
    U.S. Public Health Service monitors 399 poor blacks with syphilis and withholds their diagnosis from them. Partners and children (congenially) are subsequently infected.
    1945 Nazi gold
    The whereabouts of the Nazi regime's gold deposits are still unknown. See also PBS Frontline: Nazi Gold
    1950 Project MKULTRA
    Project MKULTRA (also known as MK-ULTRA) was the code name for a CIA mind-control research program lasting from the 1950s through the late 1960s. It was first brought to wide public attention by the U.S. Congress (in the form of the Church Committee) and a presidential commission (known as the Rockefeller Commission) (see Revelation below) and also to the U.S. Senate. Also mentioned in the Rockefeller Commission report are other operations where informed consent was waived or unethically ignored for other operations like Operation Whitecoat.
    1953 Operation Midnight Climax
    Operation Midnight Climax was an operation initially established by Dr. George Hunter White under the alias of Morgan Hall for the CIA. The project consisted of a web of CIA run brothels in San Francisco and New York. It was established in order to study the effects of LSD on unconsenting individuals after the supply of consenting patients ran out.
    1953 Operation Ajax
    Operation Ajax (officially TP-AJAX) was an Anglo-American covert operation to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran and Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and restore the exiled Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi to the throne as a dictator.
    1954 Operation PBSUCCESS
    Operation PBSUCCESS was a CIA-organized covert operation that overthrew the democratically-elected President of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in 1954.
    1956 COINTELPRO
    An FBI program originally begun to "increase factionalism, cause disruption and win defections" inside the Communist Party U.S.A., the program was soon enlarged to include the Socialist Workers Party, it quickly expanded to cover Black Liberation groups, Puerto Rican independence groups, the American Indian Movement, the Students for a Democratic Society & Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, antiwar, community, and religious groups. Its most infamous act was the assassination, carried out by the Chicago Police Department, of Black Panther Fred Hampton. The program was secret until 1971, when an FBI field office was burglarized by a group of left-wing radicals calling themselves the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI.
    1961 Bay of Pigs invasion
    Cuban expatriates backed by the U.S. government attempted to invade Cuba at Cuba's Bay of Pigs in the Bay of Pigs invasion of April 1961. The expected urban revolt failed to materialise due to popular support for Castro. The Soviet Union had also warned Castro, who ordered executions and preemptive mass arrests of those thought likely to support a counter-revolution.
    1961 The Cuban Project
    The Cuban Project, also known as "Operation Mongoose" is the general name for CIA covert operations and plans initiated by President John F. Kennedy on November 30, 1961 which authorized aggressive covert terrorist operations against Communism in the Cuban Republic, including several assassination attempts against the Cuban head of state, Fidel Castro. The operation was led by Air Force General Edward Lansdale and came into being after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion.
    The goal of The Cuban Project was to "help Cuba overthrow the Communist regime", overthrow its leader Fidel Castro, and aim "for a revolt which can take place in Cuba by October 1962". See also, "Operation Northwoods", proposed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which included terrorist actions against targets in the U.S. that were to be blamed on Cuba ("false flag" operations), which was never carried out.
    1962 Operation Northwoods
    Operation Northwoods or Northwoods was the code name for various proposals for false flag actions, including domestic terror attacks on U.S. soil, proposed in 1962 by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders to generate U.S. public support for military action against Cuba. The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a draft memorandum pdf) written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The draft memo was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. However, McNamara rejected the proposal. The draft memorandum was declassified in recent years through a Freedom of Information Act request by the National Security Archive.
    1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident
    On August 4, 1964, North Vietnamese ships had allegedly attacked US destroyers, in what has come to be known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident which led to Lyndon B. Johnson to drastically increase troop levels in Vietnam. On November 30, 2005, the National Security Archive released hundreds of pages of documents revealing that President Johnson was shown only selective intelligence and that the August 4th attack in all likelihood never occurred.
    1965 Suppressing Sarkhan
    The followup book to The Ugly American by William Lederer and Eugene Burdick disappears from bookstores. Lederer claims the CIA did it because it revealed too much about then current operations in Thailand. It was finally released in 1977 under the title 'The Deceptive American'.
    1967 to ? USS LIBERTY
    Attack on USS Liberty (AGTR-5) LBJ called back rescue planes TWICE after Radio operator found a workaround jamming and called to carrier group for mayday. Israel used unmarked planes and boats to twice attack U.S.Navy listening post ship; jamming American radio channels as a "no flag"/false flag operation. Ruled officially a accident but some largely symbolic reparations were paid. Official coverup continues. The purpose was allegedly to suggest an attack on US by Egypt, in an attempt to get USA involved in the war, fighting on the Israeli side.
    1969 Secret Bombing of Cambodia
    Operation Menu was the codename for secret US bombing of alleged North Vietnamese strongholds and supply lines in Cambodia during the Vietnam War in 1969. The bombing, of a nation the US was not at war with, began with Operation Breakfast on March 17, 1969 and was conducted in secret until the New York Times broke the story on May 8, 1969.
    1969 to 1982 Italian Strategy of tension
    Conspiracy involving NATO and the Italian masonic lodge Propaganda Due
    1970 to ? Air America & Operation Scatback
    (linked to Mena Arkansas) Book By Terry Reed Contra/CIA contractor flight instructor:
    Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA* (How
    the Presidency was co-opted by the Central Intelligence Agency) *
    1972 to 1974 Watergate scandal
    Grand conspiracy involving the President of the United States.
    1975-1999 Indonesian occupation of East Timor
    U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had met President Suharto of Indonesia in Jakarta where Ford made it clear that "we will not press you on the issue" of the invasion and occupation of East Timor. Several U.S. administrations up to and including that of Bill Clinton did not ban arms sales to the Indonesian government, though the latter did eventually end U.S. support of Suharto's regime. The territory was declared the 27th province of Indonesia in July 1976 as Timor Timur. However, internationally its legal status was that of a "non-self-governing territory under Portuguese administration." See also Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media: A centerpiece of the film is a long examination into the history of The New York Times's coverage of Indonesia's invasion and occupation of East Timor, which Chomsky claims exemplifies the media's unwillingness to criticize an ally and uses as an example of self-censorship in western media.
    1981 to 1986 Iran-Contra
    The Iran-Contra Affair (also known as "Irangate") was a mid-1980s political scandal in the United States. President Ronald Reagan's administration sold arms to Iran, an avowed enemy. At the time, Americans were being held hostage in Lebanon by Hezbollah, a militant Shi'a organization loyal to Ayatollah Khomeini, and it was hoped that Iran would influence them to release the hostages; at the same time, Iran, which was in the midst of the Iran-Iraq War, could find few nations willing to supply it with weapons. The U.S. diverted proceeds from the sale to the Contras, anti-Communist guerrillas engaged in an insurgency against the left wing Sandinista government of Nicaragua. Both the sale of weapons and the funding of the Contras violated stated administration policy as well as legislation passed by the Democratic-controlled Congress, which had blocked further Contra funding. * Incomplete without mentioning Mena Arkansas as a base of operations and the drugs for arms bartering * with among other connections, to The Bluegrass Conspiracy a book by Sally Denton detailing drugs and corrupton involving the commissioner of Kentucky State Police, (who resigned) officers and other officials as reported in newspapers.
    1988 Nelson Bunker Hunt and Silver Thursday
    Nelson Bunker Hunt declared bankruptcy and was convicted in August 1988 of conspiring to manipulate the market.
    1990 Las Vegas American Coin Fixed Video Poker Conspiracy
    Las Vegas Sun: November 06, 1997 Arrest made in '90 murder; warrant issued for second man "American Coin, at the time, was the state's fourth largest slot route operator, with more than 1,000 machines in various Las Vegas locations. The company was charged with altering 300 machines." "After Volk told authorities of the computer chip scam at American Coin, the company was closed and the gaming licenses of the owners -- Rudolph and Rudy M. LaVecchia and Frank Romano -- were surrendered in a deal that required them to pay a $1 million fine to the state in the February 1990 deal." Larry Volk, the programmer of the fixed computer chip (ROM), was found shot dead, execution style, after agreeing to testify in the case. See also Comdex '99: The mysterious death of Larry Volk, Las Vegas Review Journal: Harris case nothing compared to the big one that went away
    1993 Assassination plot against President George H.W. Bush
    On April 13, 1993, several Iraqi nationals were arrested in Kuwait and charged with plotting to assassinate former President Bush via car bomb during a visit to Kuwait. Later, a court in Kuwait convicted all but one of the defendants. On 26 June, 1993, President Clinton launched a missile attack targeting Baghdad intelligence headquarters in retaliation for the attempted attack against Bush.
    1993 WTC terrorist attack
    In the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, a truck filled with explosives was planted by terrorists and detonated in the underground garage of the north tower, opening a 30m hole through 4 sublevels of concrete. Six people were killed and over a thousand injured.
    According to a presiding judge, the conspirators' chief aim at the time of the attack was to de-stabilize the north tower and send it crashing into the south tower, toppling both landmarks.
    1994 Diamonds are forever?
    In 1994 De Beers was charged by the United States Justice Department with Sherman Antitrust Act violations for conspiring to fix prices for industrial diamonds. On 14 July 2004 De Beers pleaded guilty to the charges and paid a $10 million fine. According to PBS: Frontline: The Diamond Empire: "EDWARD EPSTEIN, Author, "The Rise and Fall of Diamonds": Well, what I learned was that the diamond business wasn't a business of extracting, as I originally expected, something of enormous value and then simply seeing how much of this object you could get out of the ground and selling it. That was what the business appeared to be when I started my venture. But their real business was restricting what came out of the ground, restricting what was discovered, restricting what got cut, restricting what actually found its way into the retail market and, at the same time, through movies, through advertising, through Hollywood, through the manipulation of perceptions, creating the idea that there was this enormous demand for these shiny little objects that they seemed to have in abundant supply. So I wound up on this voyage of discovery starting off with the idea that there was this object of great value, and it was just a question of how many could you get out, and I wound up discovering it was just the opposite." See also Crater of Diamonds.
    1995 The Bojinka Plot
    The Bojinka plot refers to a three-part conspiracy: the plot to destroy 11 airliners on January 21 and 22, 1995; the plan to kill Pope John Paul II on January 15, 1995 during a papal visit to the Philippines; and the third part of this conspiracy was a plan to crash a plane into the CIA headquarters in Fairfax County, Virginia and other buildings. The Bojinka plot was prevented on January 6 and 7, 1995.
    1995 Oklahoma City bombing
    The Oklahoma City bombing was a terrorist attack on April 19, 1995, in which the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, a U.S. government office complex in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was destroyed, killing 168 people. The (Oklahoma) McCurtain Daily Gazette has reported that at least one member of the secret services and an informant for the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) had prior knowledge that the attack was about to take place, a charge which the FBI deny. The newspaper also alleges that the FBI and the Southern Poverty Law Section, as part of a top-secret undercover operation, may have indeed assisted the bombers in their plans as part of a failed sting operation, citing evidence given in a court case by a BATF informant and data published under the Freedom of Information Act as 'proof'.
    Other reports point variously to the quick response of agents dressed in full 'mop-gear' clothing, as if pre-prepared for an explosion; the fact that the BATF offices (in the bombed building) were empty at the time of the explosion; FBI reluctance to release sensitive documentation relating to the case, and rumours of an SMS warning sent out to BATF staff as further 'evidence' of a major conspiracy. These reports are largely based on empirical evidence and circumstantial information, and remain unproven.
    1995 to 2004 Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal
    The Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal is a United States political scandal relating to the work performed by political lobbyists Jack Abramoff, Ralph E. Reed, Jr., Grover Norquist and Michael Scanlon on behalf of Indian casino gambling interests for an estimated $85 million in fees. Abramoff and Scanlon grossly overbilled their clients, secretly splitting the multimillion-dollar profits. In one case, they secretly orchestrated lobbying against their own clients in order to force them to pay for lobbying services.

    2000's
    2001 Enron and Arthur Andersen
    The company and its Big Five accounting firm conspired to commit accounting fraud. Fortune named Enron "America's Most Innovative Company" for six consecutive years.
    2002 Las Vegas Venetian Rigged Drawing
    The Venetian casino employees conspired to rig drawings. According to the Las Vegas Sun: July 15, 2004 Venetian contest rigger lectured by regulators: "Mok said he rigged the drawing because a high-roller he was hosting lost $5 million gambling and the employee "didn't want to see him go home empty-handed."" The Venetian agreed to pay a $1 million fine to settle a 12 count complaint. "Board member Bobby Siller ... compared the additional damage inflicted by attempting to cover up the scheme with the trouble former President Richard Nixon brought upon himself during the Watergate burglary investigation." Four Venetian employees lost their licenses to work in the Nevada gaming industry but were quickly hired by casinos in other states. According to the Las Vegas Sun: "Michael French, the former senior vice president of operations, became the chief operating officer for the Inn of the Mountain Gods casino in Mescalero, N.M. Brian Parrish, formerly the vice president of marketing, became the marketing director for the same New Mexico tribal casino. The Mescalero Apache Tribe said they believed the involvement by French and Parrish in the scheme was more than offset by their wide-ranging experience. Don Richardson, another Venetian executive involved in the incident, surfaced as the director of operations at the Wildfire, a small casino owned by Station Casinos Inc. Station officials said the company's regulatory compliance department investigated the matter and determined that Richardson was suitable for the position."
    2004 Secret CIA Prisons
    A story by reporter Dana Priest published in The Washington Post of November 2, 2005, reported that "The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement."[4]
    The report contends that the CIA has a worldwide covert prison system with facilities in Asia, Eastern Europe, and in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The system is central to the agency's anti-terror role, and according to the report has been kept secret from government officials (including Congressional committees that oversee the CIA) through the agency's own efforts as well as cooperation with foreign intelligence services.
    This conspiracy was proven in 2006 when President Bush admitted that indeed there are secret CIA prisons in Europe and elsewhere.
    2005 Ahmed Omar Abu Ali
    On November 23 a federal jury convicted Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, a citizen of the United States, on nine counts, including conspiracy to assassinate the president, and conspiracy to commit aircraft piracy.
    2005 DRAM price fixing
    In October Samsung pled guilty to conspiring with other companies, including Infineon and Hynix Semiconductor, to fix the price of DRAM. Samsung was the third company to be charged in connection with the international cartel and was fined $300M. In October 2004 four executives from Infineon were sentenced to 4 to 6 months in prison and $250,000 in fines after agreeing to aid the U.S. Department of Justice with their investigation of the conspiracy.
    2005 Bernard Ebbers
    He was convicted of fraud and conspiracy in the largest (to date) accounting scandal in U.S. history, as a result of WorldCom's false financial reporting, and subsequent 180 billion dollar loss to investors.

    These would have all been cast aside if it were up to some of the likes of you.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  10. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Most of them are so closed minded, and ideologically invested in their delusional world view… that it isn't even worth wasting time speaking to them.
    I think it is much to the contrary, we are more open-minded. If it was proven that those buildings fell from high temp jet fuel fires it would prove the other side wrong. Therefore they assume, if the other side is wrong about that part of the puzzle then it can be assumed they are wrong about everything else too. It means that they don’t have to answer any of the other hard questions. They do not have to look any further into the case. They can just keep beating their chests that they were correct about the way the buildings fell so all follow-on questions are mute because scientists solved the case. To me that is closed-mindedness.

    Doing investigative work requires an open mind. It is tiresome and frustrating. Most people just want to find an answer. When they solve pieces of the puzzle they want to put a rest to the case. Well has anyone considered that there may have been elements within our government that knew of this attack and worked on the sidelines, not with them, but in a way allowed it to happen? Has anyone considered that if explosives were not used it does not totally exonerate all rogue elements of our government?

    It was our impression that those two building would withstand a direct hit by a plane of that size. Maybe they thought the damage would be far less. What I see is a lack of questions from those that think science solved all of the events of that day. You never see guys like Scrog asking questions or even thinking outside the scientific box. He thinks solving one small piece of the puzzle allows him to turn his brain off and beat his chest.

    Two things noted about Scrog and Mark:
    Scrog has said that suspecting our government was complicit in this attack is unpatriotic.
    Mark lumps those that want 911 questions answered with those that doubt the lunar landing. That is “A Giant Leap.”

    Broad brushes equal closed & shallow mindedness.

  11. #232
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    To question everything our government does and says is patriotism. Those that do not question are not patriotic, rather apathetic...dissent is the highest form of patriotism!

    Some of you should write this down so you don't forget it.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  12. #233
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    No, no, I'll solve most of the puzzle, in fact. All I need is someone willing to read and apply common sense. That's what I've asked of Roy.

    If you are so investigative, why do you ignore the science link?. Why do you ignore the plain photo evidence I've posted that shows that you folks are holding up pictures of non-molten metal AS molten metal, and ignoring clear photo evidence of the buildings not exactly falling in thier footprint but instead flinging off a crapload of debris during the collapse?

    It seems that your powers of observation are similar to your brand of "truth".

    You ignored both, then with a straight face charge others with not considering or debating things properly.

    As the robot on Lost in Space use to say, that does not compute.

    What I said was that you were doing a dis-service to the families of the victims. But feel free to put words in my mouth as you have often done in this very topic. The first time, it wasn't even pointed out by me!

    Clearly, intellectually dishonest folks.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  13. #234
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    18,223
    And clearly, you are lost in space.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

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