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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Virginia Beach VA
    Posts
    2

    Confused about my Trane System - Getting Conflicting Info from Contractors

    Hello All,

    I purchased what I thought was a 16 SEER Trane Dual Fuel Hybrid System with some add-ons I will describe later in 2009 for almost $xx. The units were serviced once by the Company I purchased the units from and after a few no-shows, I switched to a different HVAC co to service it this year. The tech that came out was (seemingly) very thorough but basically told me everything I purchased was either mis-matched or not correct. and that I am not getting anywhere near 16 seer and that the system does not qualify for the tax break.. that I took!!

    Ok.. here are the specs..

    What Iwas told I purcahsedas shown on the Proposal/Contract):
    Manufacturer: Trane XL 15i
    R410
    O/U# 4TTX5036
    Coil# TE37936C210
    Capacity Clg: 3 Ton 1-Stage
    I/U# TUD100R9V5K
    Capacity Htg: K 2 Stages
    SEER: 16 AFUE: 80%
    Parts: 10 Labor: 2 (Warranty)
    Heat Exchange Ltd: 20
    Compressor Ltd: 10
    Thermostat: Digital Model# 803
    (11) High Grade Flex Supply Lines, R-8
    Rebate: $1500 Tax Credit
    Total: $xxxx
    Add Ons:

    Trane Clean Effects Model# TE37936C175B22 $xxx
    "CO NAME" upgrade (dual fuel) Model# TUD1B080A9H31B $xxx
    Surge Protector Model# (not listed) $xxx

    Total $xxx (includes some finance charge even though it was supposed to be 18 Mo SAC and I paid off in 6 months) this was 12/09

    So jump to today.. I called the second company out to clean the units.. the filters, specifically, and to ask if it's something I can clean myself (the electro-static filter)

    So.. it turns out these are my actual model numbers:
    Heat Pump Model# 4TWX5036A1000A
    Upflow UD Model# TUD1B080A9H31B
    ADP Coil Model# TE37936C175B2522A
    Clean Effects Model# TFD145ALFR000A
    Thermostat Model# TCONT803AS32DA

    The young man from the second company told me there is no way my unit is getting 16 SEER, that the only way it would is with a Variable Speed Blower (Which I was told I was purchasing) and I have a single speed Blower. He also said the coil is ADP and he is confused as to why they installed that and not the Trane coil as the Trane coil would have been more efficient.. that basically, all the efficiency I thought I was purchasing is out the window due to what was actually installed.

    Now, granted, they could have installed an elephant wearing a tutu in my attic and as long as it continued to blow hot and cold when I wanted hot and cold, I probably wouldn't have known any difference.. however, after getting rid of the unit that was over 18 years old, I expected to see the "great savings" in my power bill that simply hasn't happened. The first company installed all new duct in the attic, using existing registers.

    I went by company #1 today to ask for a copy of the AHRI Certificate... the young lady that helped me fumbled around with the paperwork for awhile, gave me a copy of the proposal/contract I already had, and an inter office generated invoice that again listed the Model numbers as the second tech recorded with the exception of the ADP coil.. it simply says "ADP Coil" and desn't record a model or serial #. The Heat Pump, Upflow unit and Clean Effects all have Serial #'s. She then said she would have to check on some things and email me the certificate (my paperwork states I will have one).

    Ok.. so what's the scoop? Was I duped? Do I have a 16 SEER system? I live in VirginiaBeach VA.. in a single story ranch home approx 1200 sq feet. Small 3 bedroom, 2 teensy bath home.

    The second tech said I should call and demand they correct the Blower/Furnace and the Coil at no cost because what they indicated on the proposal is not what i have in my attic...

    He also told me to quit using the high density allergen filters in my huge return air (18x24x2) as they are also lowering the efficiency and to simply not use one as I have the clean Effects unit.

    I am simply LOST!

    Can anyone please put this in laymans terms.. use your decoder rings, magic 8 balls, tea leaves.. whatever, I will SO appreciate it! If you need additional information (like whether I own any beachfront property in Kansas..) let me know and I will reply accordingly...
    Last edited by ConfusedinVA; 09-25-2012 at 08:39 PM. Reason: removed pricing & incorrect add-ons

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,189
    The young man from the second company told me there is no way my unit is getting 16 SEER, that the only way it would is with a Variable Speed Blower (Which I was told I was purchasing) and I have a single speed Blower. He also said the coil is ADP and he is confused as to why they installed that and not the Trane coil as the Trane coil would have been more efficient.. that basically, all the efficiency I thought I was purchasing is out the window due to what was actually installed.
    The young man needs to learn a little more. Your furnace has a fixed speed high efficiency blower motor. Specifically Genteq's X13 technology. While not variable speed, they are very efficient and often lead to numbers more efficient than variable speed. And 3rd party coils, like ADP, often get higher efficiencies than Trane coils as the ratings are computer simulated not actually measured. Recent policy changes have limited them in recent years but they usually do a little better.

    Obviously what was installed was not on the proposal. 80K 1 stage FSHE intead of 100K 2 stage variable. You got a HP not an A/C. I didn't find a rating with the 37 slab coil, all were with the 36 so either ADP has dropped that coil or it was never meant to be with that system.

    3 tons for 1200 sq ft in your area sounds big. The 100K furnace would have really been out of line. But something sure is fishy. Find out why you ended up with the cheaper furnace and keep demanding the AHRI certificate showing the 16 SEER A/C. It sure looks like you are well short of it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,048
    Do you have 2 seperare 18x24 grille's?

    But yes don't run anyhting else but see through ones indoors. Keep that prefilter clean in attic. ( yes not very convenient)

    Moreso than anything else the true variable speed furnace will provide a constant proper airflow as surely with all your ducts and filters you are exceeding the specs on that fixed speed (psc) model.

    That is worth a lot IMO in terms of delivered cooling and efficiency rather than a match that somehow met seer ratings. If they do find a certificate that isn't fabricated.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,048
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    The young man needs to learn a little more. Your furnace has a fixed speed high efficiency blower motor. Specifically Genteq's X13 technology. While not variable speed, they are very efficient and often lead to numbers more efficient than variable speed. And 3rd party coils, like ADP, often get higher efficiencies than Trane coils as the ratings are computer simulated not actually measured. Recent policy changes have limited them in recent years but they usually do a little better.

    Obviously what was installed was not on the proposal. 80K 1 stage FSHE intead of 100K 2 stage variable. You got a HP not an A/C. I didn't find a rating with the 37 slab coil, all were with the 36 so either ADP has dropped that coil or it was never meant to be with that system.

    3 tons for 1200 sq ft in your area sounds big. The 100K furnace would have really been out of line. But something sure is fishy. Find out why you ended up with the cheaper furnace and keep demanding the AHRI certificate showing the 16 SEER A/C. It sure looks like you are well short of it.
    Nice work on that. If I remember a/c had to be 16seer and heat pump was 15 to get credit?

    I didn't know that about 3rd party coils.

    Would you think if they were actually tested against oem trane coil it would be close to the performance?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Virginia Beach VA
    Posts
    2
    SBKold - There is only (1) intake grille - the 18x24 (I put x2 because that's what the filter packaging indicates, sorry for the confusion).

    I have all wood flooring and I swear I have never lived in a dustier house! If I have to climb in that attic a couple of times a month to clean the filter (even though the furnace is at the opposite end of the house from the attic access) I will.. it can't be more work than dusting, mopping and shining wood floors every week!

    I appreciate everyone's input. Once I feel I have a good handle on what has actually been short changed, I plan to approach the original contractor and hopefully not come off sounding as incompetent as I feel and make a case to have these inconsistencies explained or resolved.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    7,059
    You need a blower door test, that's probably not dust it's probably insulation being pulled through leaks in your thermal envelope that is intinsified by the blower running with dominant supply duct leakage IMO, pretty common problem

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