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  1. #1
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    AOP contractor bashing blues

    I have been reading some of the AOP threads and to be quite honest, I get sick to my stomach!
    Seems to me that some of the threads are doing a good job of reinforcing the likes of that HVAC contractor sting recently televised.

    As a contractor myself, I see a lot of crooks in my area. It brings me a lot of business, and I am constantly educating my customers when they have been lead astray by these crooks. I respect the fact that the AOP is supposed to be helping with this. But when we have a thread about leaking king valves, and aop members (without knowing the extent of the leak) are justifying a quick fix..... I say to myself WTF.... Why not incourage the OP to make the proper repair?? What happens when you (the basher) has to go change out the evap on this job, valves are so bad that you cannot pump system down or pull proper vac to make repairs complete. You will have to suggest replacing said valves, at which point the OP will say no it is not necessary to do so because the fine people from AOP said not to. Now your rep is jeopardized as being a hack, or crook......(just an example of these threads biting us in the butt)
    I think the bashing gets a little carried away....
    Are we really helping our industry, or reputation as an industry with this type of attitude????


    sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
    Member of the "Work Exchange Program"
    "Will work for knowledge"

    "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"
    A Einstein

  2. #2
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    Good points, Thread sealant on a service valve , ridiculous.

  3. #3
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    Its not good ...

    I make it a point not to bash any tech or contractor.
    It often backfires and is very unprofessional.
    mikeacman

  4. #4
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    Most of my work is manufacturing related .

    What's cheaper , new valves or quick fix ?

    Down time on a production line can be big $$$ and cause other problems as a lot of goods are built "on time delivery"

    You get caught taking shortcuts around here and a factory loses production Your done
    mikeacman

  5. #5
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    It must be said that the AOP forum is just that. Someone asking a group of professionals for their opinion on a situation the said professionals are not looking at themselves. Techs are not stamped out in a factory with a cookie cutter. We all do the same kind of work but we all are taught or learn in different environments with different teachers, experiences, and role models. What one tech calls overkill another, just as trained and experienced, tech may call SOP or vise versa. Techs disagree on here all the time about procedures and proper coarse of actions even though they probably end up at the same place in the end. I think that's a good thing. We learn from each other different ways to do the same things. In the end this is an opinion forum and should be taken as such.

  6. #6
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy knocker View Post
    It must be said that the AOP forum is just that. Someone asking a group of professionals for their opinion on a situation the said professionals are not looking at themselves. Techs are not stamped out in a factory with a cookie cutter. We all do the same kind of work but we all are taught or learn in different environments with different teachers, experiences, and role models. What one tech calls overkill another, just as trained and experienced, tech may call SOP or vise versa. Techs disagree on here all the time about procedures and proper coarse of actions even though they probably end up at the same place in the end. I think that's a good thing. We learn from each other different ways to do the same things. In the end this is an opinion forum and should be taken as such.
    Agree, when kept between techs. Making an already skeptic public even more skeptic on an open forum (because techs disagree) is bad for our industry..... Period

    sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
    Member of the "Work Exchange Program"
    "Will work for knowledge"

    "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"
    A Einstein

  7. #7
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    Thread Starter
    There is nothing wrong with a company suggesting to replace king valves when leaking! I repeat, NOTHING WRONG!
    It should have been responded to in that manner.
    I read techs gloating on here (almost on a daily basis) on how things should be done one way, the right way. I am not innocent in this. But i feel comfortable in knowing discussions were held between collegues/fellow tradesman.
    I am not picking on anyone in particular from that thread. As I have seen this charade in countless other threads in AOP.

    I can guarantee this, it will come back round to bite US
    We as a community (HVAC-talk and industry) should tread lightly on this issue. Thats all I am saying.

    sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
    Member of the "Work Exchange Program"
    "Will work for knowledge"

    "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"
    A Einstein

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamersoutdoor View Post
    Agree, when kept between techs. Making an already skeptic public even more skeptic on an open forum (because techs disagree) is bad for our industry..... Period

    sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
    Not sure I agree. Kind of a glass half empty vs half full thing. The forum will give skeptics fuel for their skepticism I agree, not that they need fuel. However I think a somewhat informed public that asks alot of questions,although irritating at times, is good for our industry. Good techs and companies can withstand scrutiny. Gas and go beer can cold techs and companies usually cannot. That's a good thing. Not saying your wrong or misguided in anyway just offering a different point of view.

  9. #9
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy knocker View Post
    Not sure I agree. Kind of a glass half empty vs half full thing. The forum will give skeptics fuel for their skepticism I agree, not that they need fuel. However I think a somewhat informed public that asks alot of questions,although irritating at times, is good for our industry. Good techs and companies can withstand scrutiny. Gas and go beer can cold techs and companies usually cannot. That's a good thing. Not saying your wrong or misguided in anyway just offering a different point of view.
    I do see the good, kind of hit and miss though
    That thread implemented more of a gas & go mentality

    sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
    Member of the "Work Exchange Program"
    "Will work for knowledge"

    "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"
    A Einstein

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamersoutdoor View Post
    I have been reading some of the AOP threads and to be quite honest, I get sick to my stomach!
    Seems to me that some of the threads are doing a good job of reinforcing the likes of that HVAC contractor sting recently televised.

    As a contractor myself, I see a lot of crooks in my area. It brings me a lot of business, and I am constantly educating my customers when they have been lead astray by these crooks. I respect the fact that the AOP is supposed to be helping with this. But when we have a thread about leaking king valves, and aop members (without knowing the extent of the leak) are justifying a quick fix..... I say to myself WTF.... Why not incourage the OP to make the proper repair?? What happens when you (the basher) has to go change out the evap on this job, valves are so bad that you cannot pump system down or pull proper vac to make repairs complete. You will have to suggest replacing said valves, at which point the OP will say no it is not necessary to do so because the fine people from AOP said not to. Now your rep is jeopardized as being a hack, or crook......(just an example of these threads biting us in the butt)
    I think the bashing gets a little carried away....
    Are we really helping our industry, or reputation as an industry with this type of attitude????


    sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
    If its the thread I'm thinking of, he was told to replace the valves when work was done in future.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by billygoat22 View Post
    If its the thread I'm thinking of, he was told to replace the valves when work was done in future.
    If the immediate leak was sealable with thread sealant, that would be my recommendation.
    Just please use Nylog and not Leak Lock....

  12. #12
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    The whole AOP is a bad idea in my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy knocker View Post
    It must be said that the AOP forum is just that. Someone asking a group of professionals for their opinion on a situation the said professionals are not looking at themselves. Techs are not stamped out in a factory with a cookie cutter. We all do the same kind of work but we all are taught or learn in different environments with different teachers, experiences, and role models. What one tech calls overkill another, just as trained and experienced, tech may call SOP or vise versa. Techs disagree on here all the time about procedures and proper coarse of actions even though they probably end up at the same place in the end. I think that's a good thing. We learn from each other different ways to do the same things. In the end this is an opinion forum and should be taken as such.
    IMHO, that means the OP (the customer) now has to make a complex value judgment to understand why THEIR contractor did "A," and someone who isn't there at his house says that "B" would have been the only correct approach.

    That's too great a burden to place on someone who has as much experience as your new helper.

    It's fine to discuss two alternative or three alternative approaches to the same problem, and show WHY you think one might be better than the other two. To us, one of those approaches may be utter nonsense and hackery, but we can dismiss that alternative without making it seem that the only worthwhile answers and worthwhile pros are here, because we all know that is not as true as we would like to imagine it.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
    Member, IAEI

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