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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    ...In a RTOS, timers can just hold a static count based on "system time” when an event was triggered (sys time is copied into them).
    public static Clock.Ticket Clock.schedule ( BComponent target, BRelTime time, Action action, BValue arg)

    Schedule an single action at the specified relative time from now. This action is scheduled independently of changes to the system clock.
    Parameters:
    BComponent target - BComponent to invoke the action upon.
    BRelTime time - relative time from now to invoke the action.
    Action action - the action to invoke on this schedule's component.
    BValue arg - argument to pass to the action or null if no argument is required.
    Returns:
    Ticket instance which may be used to cancel the scheduled action.
    Exceptions:
    IllegalArgumentException - if time less than or equal to zero.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    I would be interested in what the real Jace cycle time is.
    Event based ... ECHO...ECHo...ECho...Echo...echo...ech...ec...e... .
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  3. #16
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    So reading through the lines, so to speak, the only issue would "potentially" be cycle time, if you needed it to be faster. I don't see any parcel handling equipment, so I think I'm good there.

    I can see the benefits from an owner point of view in that if I have an "open" JACE, I could have multiple vendors with the ability to work on it. Also would make replacement JACE panels a bit more price competitive. Custom programs might be an issue though.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  4. #17
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    Custom programs...hmmm, in a process environment Id expect the programming to be very precise and every bit custom. Whats the difference? In PLC-land programs can be written in Ladder, FunctionBlock, Line-by-line ... Whats the difference?

    I set up a repeating timer in a jace6 that was talking to a dozen MSTP and a dozen Modbus devices and had it write to system window every time the timer expired. set the time to 10ms and the events did back up. What I saw was about 3 events got handled all in the same millisecond ... thats right the device wrote to debug 3 times in the same millisecond....but this is a J6 ... could try it on a NXS platform... or a SoftJace and see what happened.

    Parcel handling PLCs will probably be communicating via ModbusTCP to field IO... cant really see the big problem using a jace but the salient point of course is that, for that application, you would use a dedicated PLC anyway.

    Framing the question JACE v PLC in a process environment is kinda like framing ... should we use a Jace to land the Mars Rover?
    its just a stupid construct to some Loytec clown to say the Jace is crap but Loytec isnt.
    ...wouldnt care so much .... if their claims were actually factual.

    Imagining them out there madly researching right now...digging up more outdated half-arsed information.

    *sigh*
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  5. #18
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    Dec 2001
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    Maybe you aren't crossing over to more industrial applications, but having instant reload on program modifications and not having your device reboot the I/O is a huge advantage when working on something like a chiller plant. No owner wants their peak rate to rise due to a code download and a chiller plant restart between 10:a.m. and local end of peak day. I'm saying with Loytec your thread is not an either or comparison. Loytec does both for you if you want that.



    What I really like is the I/O is very flexible. You can have I/O attached to the LINX, remote or IP.
    The individual program for the I/O can be distributed in each I/O and all modules are hot swappable.
    I like the individual LCD displays.


    Thanks for the thread. I thought it was a great thread topic before it was derailed.
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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    Maybe you aren't crossing over to more industrial applications, but having instant reload on program modifications and not having your device reboot the I/O is a huge advantage when working on something like a chiller plant. No owner wants their peak rate to rise due to a code download and a chiller plant restart between 10:a.m. and local end of peak day. I'm saying with Loytec your thread is not an either or comparison. Loytec does both for you if you want that.



    What I really like is the I/O is very flexible. You can have I/O attached to the LINX, remote or IP.
    The individual program for the I/O can be distributed in each I/O and all modules are hot swappable.
    I like the individual LCD displays.


    Thanks for the thread. I thought it was a great thread topic before it was derailed.
    Whom stated that this is an issue? My I/O programming totally gets the reboot and what and when things need to happen during such an event.

    Your PID loop for example leaves off at ? and returns to the same place? upon a power restore... WHY ??

    I see ZERO difference here between either.

    JMO, But I think your a basher plain and simple

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    ..........and not having your device reboot the I/O is a huge advantage
    Why do my IO points reboot?
    Cant say that I ever had this problem....yes there are circumstances where a reboot is necessary but none that are critical...we are not landing the Mars Rover remember.
    Why would a JACE reboot its IO under normal programming...everything is live and real-time including normal programming.
    My field IO certainly dont reboot when (on the rare occasion ) I must reboot a JACE.
    Tell me though that there is a device out there that doesnt ever need a reboot...and when it does reboot, does it simply leave the IO in their current state...uncontrolled ??

    ...derailed my arse ... this is exactly what you were looking for when you first posted, so lay off the finger pointing...it just sounds childish.
    Last edited by MatrixTransform; 09-26-2012 at 05:39 PM.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  8. #21
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    I think you guys are being a bit rough.
    1. The OP asked for JACE or Application PLC's. Of course a comment such as "The Jace does not look to appealing for this application" will ruffle so feathers.
    2. My I/O's/Logic cycles with a download/program change on a TAC Xenta controller. I know of others in which the same happens. As to specifically cycling, they don't all cycle per say, they just go to default and then once the device loads then the program runs as needed and the I/O's do such. I can run cycle times of 100 ms to 10,000 ms, which I am surprised the JACE may be only at 500 ms, but either way most of the stuff I run at 10,000 as I don't need it that fast.
    3. I haven't seen anyone provide backed up information on either side, data sheets, links, etc.

    A few years back a PLC programmer at a Goodrich/Goodyear factory told me his concern of the cycle times and such with some of the heavy load handling they are doing, they are missing things by mere millimeters and if thing were off just a bit or didn't execute as fast the load would crush/destroy a lot of stuff. In my HVAC stuff I don't have to be as precise.
    Did a specialty lighting project and the cycle times didn't allow me to make the lights quite work as wanted, I was able to get close enough, but I had to send early triggers, ie even though it was the 5th light to fire I had to send the fire signal at almost the same time as the third light to get the look right.

    I know my stuff may cycle I/O's so I simply know what to put into hand before I download; however when training others on operation of such stuff and how to really know the system I can't be sure they'll do it right. A PLC controller that won't allow I/O's to cycle or load the new program in less than a program cycle would be ideal. For those that say such isn't an issue then you're not dealing with Critical stuff. If someone tries to load to a central plant I did a few years back and not put things in hand they'll dump the closed loop & chemicals, start up the well pumps and flush the system with fresh water and more, this gets real expensive in a hurry...

    Back to the OP, what are you calling critical applications?
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthington View Post
    Whom stated that this is an issue? My I/O programming totally gets the reboot and what and when things need to happen during such an event.

    Your PID loop for example leaves off at ? and returns to the same place? upon a power restore... WHY ??

    I see ZERO difference here between either.

    JMO, But I think your a basher plain and simple
    Chris, things are so much clearer to me now. I couldn't figure out why you refuse to moderate here and now I know since you actually posted some content.

    From your post you have no clue about PLC's. You cannot figure out why instant reload is a good thing. You don't know much about network timing by your inaction on bogus posting by others. You can't moderate what you have no clue about and that sums up the situation here.

    The title is Application PLC or JACE. The Loytec product is a PLC. This is relevant and there is no bashing going on because of it. I deal with Distech, JCI, Andover, Trane, Circon and other manufacturers and for this thread I can't use them as an example because none of them is a PLC. The closest to that is the DX9100 from JCI for programming.

    We have put in many JACE products as a company. Nobody here has come up with documentation on JACE cycle or execution timing, and I asked for it. It is not a bash to ask.

    I also figured out here you or your personal pet Matrix have not figured out what questions you could ask. This is how badly you don't understand whats going on. What you do is allow Matrix to berate Orion, me or anyone else looking to get some information and ask questions.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    Chris, things are so much clearer to me now. I couldn't figure out why you refuse to moderate here and now I know since you actually posted some content.

    From your post you have no clue about PLC's. You cannot figure out why instant reload is a good thing. You don't know much about network timing by your inaction on bogus posting by others. You can't moderate what you have no clue about and that sums up the situation here.

    The title is Application PLC or JACE. The Loytec product is a PLC. This is relevant and there is no bashing going on because of it. I deal with Distech, JCI, Andover, Trane, Circon and other manufacturers and for this thread I can't use them as an example because none of them is a PLC. The closest to that is the DX9100 from JCI for programming.

    We have put in many JACE products as a company. Nobody here has come up with documentation on JACE cycle or execution timing, and I asked for it. It is not a bash to ask.

    I also figured out here you or your personal pet Matrix have not figured out what questions you could ask. This is how badly you don't understand whats going on. What you do is allow Matrix to berate Orion, me or anyone else looking to get some information and ask questions.
    Moderation occurs as needed, Topic discussion in encouraged and sometimes I may join in to debate this or that.

    We will not be going down the same road as members past such as Sysint. This I do know

    Carry on...

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    ... things are so much clearer to me now. I couldn't figure out why you refuse to moderate here and now I know since you actually posted some content.
    ...you seek to silence me because I disagree ... bit one sided maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    From your post you have no clue about PLC's. You cannot figure out why instant reload is a good thing. You don't know much about network timing by your inaction on bogus posting by others. You can't moderate what you have no clue about and that sums up the situation here.
    ...whom is berating whom here? So what, your discontent and statements are valid but mine are read as needy of silencing? ... bit one sided maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    The title is Application PLC or JACE. The Loytec product is a PLC. This is relevant and there is no bashing going on because of it. I deal with Distech, JCI, Andover, Trane, Circon and other manufacturers and for this thread I can't use them as an example because none of them is a PLC. The closest to that is the DX9100 from JCI for programming.
    but yes yr post was pointed at Tridium wasnt it ... DX9100 as a PLC ...now that's funny!
    Hmmm, is this a PLC forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    We have put in many JACE products as a company. Nobody here has come up with documentation on JACE cycle or execution timing, and I asked for it. It is not a bash to ask.
    well, YOUR documentation refers to Tridium V2 ...and is about 10 years old.
    Frankly youre the one with all the wild claims ... I reckon the onus is apon YOU to provide docco!
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    I also figured out here you or your personal pet Matrix have not figured out what questions you could ask. This is how badly you don't understand whats going on. What you do is allow Matrix to berate Orion, me or anyone else looking to get some information and ask questions.
    [/QUOTE]

    So, in the same sentence that you are berating the moderator himself ... you claim that Im berating somebody else ...AND that this is unacceptable.

    ...like I said, you guys are wierd.

    You need to understand one thing ... I am Australian and I will speak plainly. Perhaps it offends your sensibilities?
    If you cant handle directness and can only hear it as disdain, or berating...if cannot find any humour....then perhaps its time for you to move forums? Try a PLC one.

    Im sure Loytec is wonderful stuff for all sorts of applications.
    Lots of products that people use that are not Loytec ... but youre not taking a swing at them are you?
    You framed this forum mate, too late to complain about the responses yr getting.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    Event based ... ECHO...ECHo...ECho...Echo...echo...ech...ec...e... .
    Yea I read the manual.

    Event based if the event is slow enough maybe.

    Pretty sure I could hook my freq generator to output 100hz square wave to an input. Tie that input to an output on a wire sheet, then measure the output.

    Want to bet the output is far less? How about 1,000Hz or 1MHz, its ON/OFF "events" right??

    Load the jace up with lon, bacnet, modbus trunks with 30+ modules each, think it will remain the same rate?

    Its slicing the processor time between all the tasks. Load it up and the effective cycle time is bound to drop. Your testing of the timers already proves this.

    Again I fail to see any reason any HVAC controller needs to have shear speed, so the disscuion is pointless IMHO.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    Load the jace up with lon, bacnet, modbus trunks with 30+ modules each, think it will remain the same rate?
    Its slicing the processor time between all the tasks. Load it up and the effective cycle time is bound to drop. Your testing of the timers already proves this.
    Again I fail to see any reason any HVAC controller needs to have shear speed, so the discussion is pointless
    of course the testing of the timers proves this is true ... and thats why I posted it.
    It was a quick and dirty test ... more than 10ms on a partially loaded JACE(6) ... possibly in the order of 40ms....certainly not 800ms!
    Like I said could always try the same test on a faster platform I suppose ... pointless though it is.
    and yeah anyways, who is going to use a loaded up 'anyController' for critical processes?

    Yes, this is a hvac controls forum and yes the discussion is pointless....but it was framed to invite comment
    So Im happy to draw the fool out and let him keep making wild statements for as long as it takes for him to quit nagging about it.

    Who gives a jot about how crap he thinks a Jace is ... I dont have a very high regard for anything JCI ... occasionally I let something snide out about it but generally I keep my mouth shut. I certainly dont get into pissing competition with the JCI-junkies here....

    that would be very silly.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

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