Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Many people want government out of their lives and I understand that, the problem in my opinion is that people are NOT responsible. While freedom is a wonderful concept, freedom without responsibility is hurting America in every way possible.

    You can blame government all you want, but it is us who choose to make America look bad by being overweight, it is us who choose to make our children lazy by letting them become addicted to video games.

    We put rules and regulations on our children as they grow, but expect to be free ourselves....in my opinion too many adults wrongly think they are ready for freedom and should be put back under the rules of their parents.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,020
    I think you get an A for this observation.

    Folks who take responsibility for their choices, actions and lives... do not need much rule of law. It is the ones who think the rules are for others that need laws to corral them.

    Good post!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,551
    Funny we became a great country with over 140 years of personal freedom and now since FDR, then LBJ, Carter and now the ultimate Marxist Obama we are losing all our freedoms and lowering our standard of living at the same time all thanks to socialism and a big nanny government. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Funny we became a great country with over 140 years of personal freedom and now since FDR, then LBJ, Carter and now the ultimate Marxist Obama we are losing all our freedoms and lowering our standard of living at the same time all thanks to socialism and a big nanny government. Thank you, thank you very much
    The Times are different, in the early days of America there was no tv, video games, fried fatty foods at every turn, jobs were not as easy as they are now.

    People had to stay in shape because their livelihood demanded it, kids did not grow up lazy, the only things they had to entertain them ran faster than they did.

    We live in a dangerous world, where technology causes us to sit on our rears for hours and hours, many people never get off their butts.

    If you are going to inject dangerous things into a society, the people must be responsible or your society will die out.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    644
    Freedom involves the freedom to fail, and the responsibility to sleep in the bed that one has made for him/herself. No law is going to keep people thin, nor should it. People have the right to drink. They have the right to be an alcoholic, but that doesn't excuse them from the results of what may come or things they may do. Alcoholics have to choose to become sober, nobody can force them. It is not a choice that can be made for them but has to be made by them. Same with obesity. At the same time it is not society's responsibility to support them in their obesity, or alcoholism. That is up to them and anyone who WILLFULLY decides to help them. This is the principle of liberty. One can do as they please as long as it doesn't hurt others. The problem with forcing people to "be responsible" is that this means violence and force to make them. It is not morally good to use violence on someone or to force them into a cage because they have decided to drink too much or eat too much or whatever the case may be. That is only morally acceptable when someone steals, or hurts someone else.

    The problems with having government decide for people are:

    1. Physical violence or the stealing of their property is necessary to force them to comply. (punishing people for hurting themselves by hurting them in some way. Does this make sense?)
    2. The power to do this leads to corruption (the people in charge have just as many flaws as the people they are "controlling")
    3. Who is to say what is right for everyone? (no diet is universally beneficial, as athletes and office workers have different requirements on top of their individual metabolisms)

    Freedom means responsibility for one's actions. Trying to stop this by force only leads to more societal problems. Think about prohibition. The "cure" was worse than the disease, and made criminals out of people who hurt nobody. The problem with shared responsibility, like socialized medicine, is that now the people who make good decisions have to pay for the poor decisions of others who now have less responsibility for their decisions. So the ones making good decisions will get mad and try to force the others to do something by way of violence (eat less or I'll throw you in a cage). The problem with Michelle Obama's school lunches is that not everyone requires the same meal (allergies, sports vs chess players, different metabolism, etc.) and there are now black markets for things like chocolate syrup. Should kids get in trouble for having chocolate syrup? These are the kinds of things that happen without freedom. Freedom, free markets, etc. are not perfect, nothing is. But it is better than the alternatives. Would you rather live in China? Communist Russia? Hitler's Germany? Thailand? There are many countries that use violence and force to stop distasteful things people do. Go live in one for a while and see if you want to move back.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by dijit View Post
    Freedom involves the freedom to fail, and the responsibility to sleep in the bed that one has made for him/herself. No law is going to keep people thin, nor should it. People have the right to drink. They have the right to be an alcoholic, but that doesn't excuse them from the results of what may come or things they may do. Alcoholics have to choose to become sober, nobody can force them. It is not a choice that can be made for them but has to be made by them. Same with obesity. At the same time it is not society's responsibility to support them in their obesity, or alcoholism. That is up to them and anyone who WILLFULLY decides to help them. This is the principle of liberty. One can do as they please as long as it doesn't hurt others. The problem with forcing people to "be responsible" is that this means violence and force to make them. It is not morally good to use violence on someone or to force them into a cage because they have decided to drink too much or eat too much or whatever the case may be. That is only morally acceptable when someone steals, or hurts someone else.

    The problems with having government decide for people are:

    1. Physical violence or the stealing of their property is necessary to force them to comply. (punishing people for hurting themselves by hurting them in some way. Does this make sense?)
    2. The power to do this leads to corruption (the people in charge have just as many flaws as the people they are "controlling")
    3. Who is to say what is right for everyone? (no diet is universally beneficial, as athletes and office workers have different requirements on top of their individual metabolisms)

    Freedom means responsibility for one's actions. Trying to stop this by force only leads to more societal problems. Think about prohibition. The "cure" was worse than the disease, and made criminals out of people who hurt nobody. The problem with shared responsibility, like socialized medicine, is that now the people who make good decisions have to pay for the poor decisions of others who now have less responsibility for their decisions. So the ones making good decisions will get mad and try to force the others to do something by way of violence (eat less or I'll throw you in a cage). The problem with Michelle Obama's school lunches is that not everyone requires the same meal (allergies, sports vs chess players, different metabolism, etc.) and there are now black markets for things like chocolate syrup. Should kids get in trouble for having chocolate syrup? These are the kinds of things that happen without freedom. Freedom, free markets, etc. are not perfect, nothing is. But it is better than the alternatives.
    I understand what you are saying, it makes sense.

    The criminal justice system does only create more criminals, it needs a major overhaul in my opinion, but when it comes to food...are we going to create more obese people by requiring them to eat better?

    Metabolisms, yes athletes do need more calorie intake than kids who aren't physically active, and I think the plan should take that into consideration if it doesn't already.

    I believe that if you are already being responsible, nothing will change for you, if you are not being responsible you are costing other people money and are making America the laughing stock of the world.

    Shared responsibility is taught in military and sports.....two very important things in America.

    Has anyone seen honey boo boo child?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,013
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    Many people want government out of their lives and I understand that, the problem in my opinion is that people are NOT responsible. While freedom is a wonderful concept, freedom without responsibility is hurting America in every way possible.

    You can blame government all you want, but it is us who choose to make America look bad by being overweight, it is us who choose to make our children lazy by letting them become addicted to video games.

    We put rules and regulations on our children as they grow, but expect to be free ourselves....in my opinion too many adults wrongly think they are ready for freedom and should be put back under the rules of their parents.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJIztvOwQ9M

    Freedom is mot about looking good or being the best, it is about being free. Those who want adults put under a parental rule for their own good do not desire freedom. That is control/regulation/forced compliance. The latter just does not bring out the best in folks, it is just a nasty fact of human nature. Sure thing, freedom allows human maggots to thrive,.. but it also allows the best humans to achieve the highest potential they can.

    There is no way to regulate idiots not to be idiots, the attempt is expensive and the non-idiots have to pay a tax [tax on freedom too] to fund the futile attempt.

    I prefer freedom.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    644
    Yes, shared responsibility is taught in military and sports -- both are things that are voluntary

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    120
    honey boo boo child.......

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event