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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    Greetings,

    A Trane contractor has proposed the following systems for installation in my home. I thought maybe I could plug in the numbers in the ARI directory but I couldn't seem to get any results. If someone could tell me the ARI reference numbers I'd most appreciate it. I'm just curious if these are matched systems and what their SEER and BTU ratings are. Thanks in advance.

    Larry Smith

    HP1: 2TWR3036A1
    Furn1: TUD2B080A9V3
    Coil1: 2TXCB036A

    HP2: 2TWR3024A1
    Furn2: TUD2B060A9V3
    Coil2: 2TXCB025A

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,358
    Yep

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    91
    That there's a pair of matched dual fuel systems with excellent furnaces and good standard heat pumps. Dunno the ARI reference numbers, Trane is in the process of switching the model number nomenclature right now so probably don't have any under those model numbers.

    Contractor should know the efficency ratings, usually the variable speed drive adds 1/2 a SEER or so to the model rating at for those sizes. Obviously, achiving rated efficency depends on a quality installation but I like the direction you're going so far.

    Regards

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,302
    Are those the new model #s for the XV80? Confusing since they don't have an R in the model # indicating 2 stage. Guess that's been replaced with a 2. Logical but I hate change. Anyway, not on ARI's site yet but with the old model #s for the XV80 you'd get 14 SEER.

    Make sure they use the Vision Pro IAQ not the TH8320 or Trane stat. The IAQ can work with the variable speed blower for dehumdification and will properly stage the 2 stage gas backup. The 8320 or Trane's 802 won't do either. You have to use the staging timer which causes a lot of cycling in cold weather, not comfy!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    Yes, the furnaces are XV80s. I guess if those are new model numbers it's no wonder I can't find any info in the ARI directory.

    BaldLoonie, could you expand a bit more on the difference between the Vision Pro IAQ and the Honeywell 8000 (isn't that the same as the TH8320)? I know the contractor was talking about the Vision Pro from Honeywell but I'm not sure I know which model he was talking about.

    Will the TH8320 NOT work with a variable speed blower? And, isn't the TH8320 designed for multistage furnaces?

    Thanks.

    Larry Smith

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    91
    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    Are those the new model #s for the XV80? Confusing since they don't have an R in the model # indicating 2 stage. Guess that's been replaced with a 2. Logical but I hate change. Anyway, not on ARI's site yet but with the old model #s for the XV80 you'd get 14 SEER.

    Make sure they use the Vision Pro IAQ not the TH8320 or Trane stat. The IAQ can work with the variable speed blower for dehumdification and will properly stage the 2 stage gas backup. The 8320 or Trane's 802 won't do either. You have to use the staging timer which causes a lot of cycling in cold weather, not comfy!
    Now easy there man you don't know what Tstat the contractor is offering, the TCONT803 has the dehumidify features of the VP IAQ (cause it's the same part), can stage the heatpump plus 2 stages of gas for heat, and can drive the dual fuel system in restricted mode with an outdoor Tstat. It's even UL listed. It will also be covered by the Trane part's warranty since it's a Trane part. I'm just sayin'

    Believe it or not the most advanced Trane Tstat technology wise right now is the TCONT402 which can comunicate with the variable speed blower directly via pulse width modulation on the BK terminal to dehumidify and control blower speed for stages. It is super cool, but not programmable! I don't get it!

    The Honeywell/Tcont803 solution will over cool up to 1-2 degrees? to dehumidify. Sometimes that is not desireable.

    The XV80 will work with any 24v Tstat, it is happiest with a multistage Tstat to break out the gas stages, only the TCONT402 will talk directly to the variable speed drive but you don't need that functionality for the Heatpump's you are getting. That BK feature was designed specifically for controling the cfm per stage for the Trane multistage heatpumps. (16i & 19i)

    The Trane variable speed drives also has a built in dehumidify feature that the contractor might plan to take advantage that won't over cool. It's all in what you want to pay for. Alot of the available Tstat features are never used currently b/c there are not enough conductors in the wall. The heat cool system they're taking out might only have 5 wires. A TCONT402 needs 16! wires to be fully featured. I presonally am thrilled when I have 8 to work with. Tell your contractor what's important to you and don't worry about the other stuff.
    I still think you're on the right track. Anyhoo

    [Edited by stafford on 10-04-2006 at 11:11 AM]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,302
    The 8321 aka 803 does not trigger Trane's dehumidify on demand. It will only overcool the space if the humidity is above the setting. As for staging, it will not do single stage haet pump and 2 stage backup. The 3 stages are for 2 stage compressor and 1 stage backup. So if you are using it on a 2 stage gas furnace and the XR13 heat pump, you have to use the timer in the furnace board which will cause frequent cycling rather than long run periods on low, the advantage of 2 stage gas heat.

    The IAQ can be hooked to BK to slow the blower with high humidity. It also has the capability of handling W1 and W2 of the furnace board and give you true staging of the backup. Also can be hooked to a humidifier. Plus only need 3 wires from module by the furnace to stat!

    The 8321/803 will not bring on backup if the heat pump alone won't do the job. The IAQ will as long as the outside temp is below the aux lockout point, a feature not on the 8321 since it can't offer gas backup.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    91
    My apologizes sir, you are correct. I was unfamiliar with the IAQ product. It looks pretty cool!

    I dug out my 803 installer's guide and Trane's work around for the staging of the furnace is via an outdoor thermostat which is not nearly as nice. Not sure about the humidity thing, got a pdf link for the installers guide to the IAQ part? I'd like to read it (no I don't remember my password to my honeywell contractor's account...)

    Insane that the Trane controls are inferior. Oh well, when I saw the 602 I knew there were stuipd people about in Trane controls.

    Mad props to the Loon!

    PS Don't let my service techs know I'm not omnipotent, it makes my job harder.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,302
    Originally posted by stafford
    It looks pretty cool!
    If you like the regular VP, you're gonna love this thing!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    So, can you guys put this in 'consumer language?' If the contractor is contemplating a 8320 or 21, is the IAQ WAY more expensive? Am I losing major efficiencies by not having the IAQ installed? The contractor mentioned there was a new 9000 series by Honeywell. Do you know anything about it?

    Just when you think you have your system down pat, there's a whole new set of options. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so anal. I could just call a contractor, ask him for his recommendation and just install it. Trying to be an educated consumer can be a pain in the butt!

    Larry Smith

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,302
    The 9000 is the IAQ version. For you 2 big advantages. You can set the changeover point lower as this control will turn off the heat pump and fire the furnace if the heat pump isn't keeping up. The 8000 series won't. Also, the IAQ can handle 2 stages of backup heat like your furnace, the 8000 series won't. The way a Westinghouse furnace comes, it only fires on high. The dealer has to rig up a timer with the 8000 which eliminates the long run on low advantage of 2 stage heat. Or use the IAQ which will cycle high as needed by the house.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    BaldLoonie,

    Thanks for the 'consumer friendly' response. Sounds like I need to get the Trane contractor to install the 9000 series to take full advantage of what the furnace has to offer. Thanks again.

    Larry Smith

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    42
    Thanks for all the good information I knew that honeywell was coming out with this new stat but didnt know what it was capable of.With only having to run three wires to it is their a control box that is installed at furnace.

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