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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Conservative has nothing to do with controlling. Progressive was a movement of progressing society through government controls. AKA messing with peoples lives to make them better. It's still going on today. I think you are confusing conservatives with Neo-Conservatives which actually have nothing to do with conservatives. Neo-conservatives are progressives that want to control others at the point of a gun.

    A post that I have no agreement with a single word. And no, I.m not confused. The new conservative movement AKA Tea party is not, or do they understand conservativism as is generally acepted.

    Oh fun fact concerning the idea of taxing drugs. The original taxes that supported the federal government was taxes on drugs, alcohol and prostitution.
    Alcohol, yes. I have no historical knowledge of drugs and hookers concerning the Founders.
    Tracers work both ways.

  2. #41
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    Of interest: On Discovery 3 Wednesday nites, starting with 9/19; I am sure one can find a re-run...

    Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame is doing a study of the influence Alcoholic beverage had on the USA from the Pilgrims forward. While I am sure some of history will be bent and twisted.... it is a fun show to watch.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Totally FALSE!

    China is not conservative, it is Communist.
    Hitler was a Facist.
    Stalin was a Socialist.

    NONE of these are anywhere near conservative...

    Obviously someone is either parroting, and they do not really know what they speak of.
    This is the joke. Maybe you didn't understand what I meant when one confuses conservative/liberal with left/right politics. China has a commie government but the leaders are conservative in keeping control. Hitler might have called his movement socialist but names mean nothing when analyzing the nature. Stalin spoke socialist but his actions were not political, they were intolerant.
    Maybe a description Allen Watts gave. He called the left/right agenda as the 'Age old struggle between the prickly (conservative) and the Goos (Liberal)" The nature of conservatives is often just that, prickly and the gooey way some liberals express their ideas. It's hard for the two sides to even respect the others ideas. That's why left wing politics can be conservative by nature and at least in the past right wing can be liberal (IE: Ike) although it's hard to see that happening as we have polarized as a nation.
    Tracers work both ways.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    This is the joke. Maybe you didn't understand what I meant when one confuses conservative/liberal with left/right politics. China has a commie government but the leaders are conservative in keeping control. Hitler might have called his movement socialist but names mean nothing when analyzing the nature. Stalin spoke socialist but his actions were not political, they were intolerant.
    Maybe a description Allen Watts gave. He called the left/right agenda as the 'Age old struggle between the prickly (conservative) and the Goos (Liberal)" The nature of conservatives is often just that, prickly and the gooey way some liberals express their ideas. It's hard for the two sides to even respect the others ideas. That's why left wing politics can be conservative by nature and at least in the past right wing can be liberal (IE: Ike) although it's hard to see that happening as we have polarized as a nation.
    This is a tactic of the left... to confuse the facts of what is labelled what.

    Conservative is LESS government and more freedom. Now tell me how that fits with China, Hitler, or Stalin?

    And NO, more control is NOT conservative... that is a lie.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Alcohol, yes. I have no historical knowledge of drugs and hookers concerning the Founders.

    Most of the tea party movement are not conservatives. They are neo-conservatives in that they still want to expand government, just in their own way, and as I said earlier they are just progressives with guns.. Personally I consider the tea party to just be a gathering of hypocrites.

    I'm trying to find the site that I read that in but am having trouble locating it.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    You want to duck the question fine. Everyone else I've asked that to doesn't want to stand by their conviction either.

    Although you are the first one to bring food stamps into the discussion.
    I did not duct the question, I pointed out that less people would die from drugs being legal then they would if they where illegal. Now if you want blunt. People get to make their own decisions. If people want to do stupid crap, that is on their own head, not mine. The same way that if a million lazy people who don't want to work starve to death because they can't afford to eat that is on their head, and you strike me as the type that wants to get rid of foodstamps. I do as well.

    I don't see much difference in spending money to feed people to help take care of them, and spending money to try to force them to be healthy. It's just another form of welfare. We spend billions trying to take care of people. Let them stand on their own feet.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    This is the joke. Maybe you didn't understand what I meant when one confuses conservative/liberal with left/right politics. China has a commie government but the leaders are conservative in keeping control. Hitler might have called his movement socialist but names mean nothing when analyzing the nature. Stalin spoke socialist but his actions were not political, they were intolerant.
    Maybe a description Allen Watts gave. He called the left/right agenda as the 'Age old struggle between the prickly (conservative) and the Goos (Liberal)" The nature of conservatives is often just that, prickly and the gooey way some liberals express their ideas. It's hard for the two sides to even respect the others ideas. That's why left wing politics can be conservative by nature and at least in the past right wing can be liberal (IE: Ike) although it's hard to see that happening as we have polarized as a nation.
    I agree with GA. This is nothing more then trying toassociatethe meaning of a way of thinking with authorization governments. The truth is that most of what has been listed has been authoriative/liberal regeims. Truth is that there are four polls on the compase not two. Left/right aka liberal/conservitive the other set is authorative and libertarain. I would love to see just one example of a conservitive/libertarain government. Most politicians and government fall some where under authorative with a leaning of liberal or conservitive.


    Pardon the spelling nightmare...... tired and don't feel like cleaning it up.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Most of the tea party movement are not conservatives. They are neo-conservatives in that they still want to expand government, just in their own way, and as I said earlier they are just progressives with guns.. Personally I consider the tea party to just be a gathering of hypocrites.

    I'm trying to find the site that I read that in but am having trouble locating it.
    While I am not plugged into the TeaParty to have a reference point across the USA... the ones I do know here in the Metro Atlanta area (and on a few chat rooms)... are NOT neo-cons. They are TRUE conservatives.

    Do you know the difference?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    I agree with GA. This is nothing more then trying toassociatethe meaning of a way of thinking with authorization governments. The truth is that most of what has been listed has been authoriative/liberal regeims. Truth is that there are four polls on the compase not two. Left/right aka liberal/conservitive the other set is authorative and libertarain. I would love to see just one example of a conservitive/libertarain government. Most politicians and government fall some where under authorative with a leaning of liberal or conservitive.


    Pardon the spelling nightmare...... tired and don't feel like cleaning it up.
    Problem we have is: When the citizens do not take responsibility for their choices... it requires more laws to keep them from taking unfair advantage of others. There used to be a form of personal respect folks had, folks would not allow themselves to live on ANYONE's dole.. and especially a govt dole. If they were hard up, they visited the local charity or church and got some help WHILE THEY GOT THEIR LIVES STRAIGHTENED OUT BY THEIR OWN EFFORTS. Now-a-days it is a game to see how much work one can avoid and how much one can mooch off anyone else. Given this silly game today... is it any wonder we have endless laws?

    The other side of this coin is: The TRUE conservatives have not been pro-active enough to keep govt (and growth of government) corralled. Government, while it is a necessary evil, will grow like a cancer if we do not keep a watchful eye on it constantly. This means staying informed and staying politically active.
    And in GA's opinion, it means being ready to do as in the Declaration of Independence; dissolve the govt and form a new one if the govt does not behave as they should.
    So tell me; how many folks are ready to march on Wash DC (with a few petitions of millions of signatures and the appropriate legal council) and DEMAND the govt disband?
    Did not think I would see any hands raised.

    We have what we deserve, unless we are ready to do something about it.
    What is that something? Get together with others and lets figure out what we can do. How many of us are willing to do that?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    While I am not plugged into the TeaParty to have a reference point across the USA... the ones I do know here in the Metro Atlanta area (and on a few chat rooms)... are NOT neo-cons. They are TRUE conservatives.

    Do you know the difference?
    Yup. conservatives want actual small government, neo-cons want to expand government while lying about it. AKA most tea-party supporters. Don't get me wrong, the original roots of the tea party was conservative, but the elements that jumped on the band wagon co-opted it. You are a conservitive. You have your ideas about how life should be but don't seem to want to inflict those ideas on others. Its a nice balance to find.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Yup. conservatives want actual small government, neo-cons want to expand government while lying about it. AKA most tea-party supporters. Don't get me wrong, the original roots of the tea party was conservative, but the elements that jumped on the band wagon co-opted it. You are a conservitive. You have your ideas about how life should be but don't seem to want to inflict those ideas on others. Its a nice balance to find.
    THX for the compliment.. one does not get many compliments on this forum when they are conservatives.

    While I generally agree with you on neo-cons... for the most part they have not taken over the Tea Party in my area. The TeaParty folks I know are probably more conservative/libertarian than I am.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #51
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    Ya let's make METH legal. The world will be a better place.

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolMech View Post
    Ya let's make METH legal. The world will be a better place.
    The world would be no different.

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