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  1. #222
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    Jan 2001
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    7,779
    Oh yes....

    Good Sudaye mornink to ye Glenn,

    I hopeth ye has a glorious sunday......even if your weather today is overcast like ours is.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  2. #223
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,943
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Actually you are better at supplying links, of course some are obviously slanted, but that is par for the course.
    Everyone's links are slanted. Isn't that the point of providing links? What I find ammusing is people like you who condemn others for not finding what you don't believe in in the sources that you provide. It's not like we are ever going to read anything truthful about conservatives in the leftist rags you link to.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #224
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,586
    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Oh yes....

    Good Sudaye mornink to ye Glenn,

    I hopeth ye has a glorious sunday......even if your weather today is overcast like ours is.
    Good Sunday to you too corny. Hope you've been to church and made atonement for your sins. God can forgive you even if the rest of us have a hard time.. Just kidding there.

    Let me say I didn't mean to rehash old posts of yours and show disrespect but printer did gig my buddy GA through one of your posts so I felt a come back was needed there. I don't hold grudges past a day or two and those are indeed old and I let them slide.

    Please in the future however use a least some sort of links biased or not to back up your assaults on our past and present celebrities, heroes, venerated American icons, etc.. Your a good man corny just need to get on the right track here. Like ace you have apparently gone astray from your Southern roots. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  4. #225
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,496
    I would rather see zero links. Links help keep people from developing personal points of view. They encourage the ME TOO aspect of dialog by letting others make your points or worse hijack your head. It's also an appeal to authority who's authority might be in question by others here.
    Links rarely add to an argument and usually distract.
    I don't click links.
    Tracers work both ways.

  5. #226
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,779
    If Cain gets elected....just dont mention drugs around him......unless you got some on you.....
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  6. #227
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,026
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I would rather see zero links. Links help keep people from developing personal points of view. They encourage the ME TOO aspect of dialog by letting others make your points or worse hijack your head. It's also an appeal to authority who's authority might be in question by others here.
    Links rarely add to an argument and usually distract.
    I don't click links.
    Links provide a poster to verify an opinion or statement with some documented authoritative information. It is not all good, but it is sometimes simply factual and always better than tossing around theories and ideas with no means of sane support.

    I find opinions off the cuff without any supporting material [or links] to be the product of insanity usually. Of coursed we all come up with a clever notion from time to time, but usually our ideas and thoughts are shared with others.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  7. #228
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Everyone's links are slanted. Isn't that the point of providing links? What I find ammusing is people like you who condemn others for not finding what you don't believe in in the sources that you provide. It's not like we are ever going to read anything truthful about conservatives in the leftist rags you link to.
    Like the link you supplied quoting a Canadian right wing columnist saying Canadian crime is much higher than in your country and that it has been rising. I guess the government link to Statcan (Statistics Canada web site) would seem like a leftist rag to you and the data suspect. You make me laugh

    Police-reported crime rate, Canada, 1962 to 2011



    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...20724b-eng.htm
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  8. #229
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
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    5,496
    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Links provide a poster to verify an opinion or statement with some documented authoritative information. It is not all good, but it is sometimes simply factual and always better than tossing around theories and ideas with no means of sane support.

    I find opinions off the cuff without any supporting material [or links] to be the product of insanity usually. Of coursed we all come up with a clever notion from time to time, but usually our ideas and thoughts are shared with others.

    I disagree. I see links often as plagiarism. Nothing original, just hitchhiking on someone else's ideas. If someone tried to go through college using links they would fail. A person can quote to add a sense of history for instance but to link and say "see!!! I'm right. This link proves it." Anyone savvy about the Internet knows a counter link is just around the corner.
    You mentioned authoritative information as a reason to link. The reason an appeal to authority is considered an argumental falacy in logic is it avoids original thought. The idea behind a valid argument is originality or at least making your case not using someone else's ideas.
    You mentioned "Sane support" as a justification to link. It's not. Because the link isn't validated. Often just some blogger shooting their mouth off. I would rather read someone's argument with mistakes than see a weak kneed attempt to win the argument with someone's else's ideas. You could comment on a link in for instance to examine an argument but not the way so many embrace it as their own.
    I quoted James Carville before and I thinks it's worth repeating. "Proliferation of news sources" Americans seek out media outlets or websites to confirm their beliefs, rather than challenge themselves with hard information. "People use information for validation, not information. They use it like a drunk uses a lamp post."
    A valid argument needs no support. It stands by itself. BTW an argument doesn't have to be true to be valid. Just another reason to avoid links.
    Tracers work both ways.

  9. #230
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
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    5,496
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Like the link you supplied quoting a Canadian right wing columnist saying Canadian crime is much higher than in your country and that it has been rising. I guess the government link to Statcan (Statistics Canada web site) would seem like a leftist rag to you and the data suspect. You make me laugh

    Police-reported crime rate, Canada, 1962 to 2011




    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...20724b-eng.htm
    A person doesn't have to go further then comparing Toronto with Detroit to see a vast difference. Any US American that has spent any amount of time in another country knows the US can be a dangerous place when compared. For some reason many people in the US seem to like it that way.
    When I see US football and all the talk abut how dangerous it is and how players suffer, "Change the game NO WAY"! they say. Fans like the danger. There wouldn't be a NASCAR without the crashes. The safer war becomes (in terms of deaths), using more technology and keeping the body count acceptable, the more probability for more wars. General Patton was right. Americans (US) love the sting of battle." (But not the body count.) This attitude can really puzzle a lot of the rest of the world. The Wild West has never really left us.
    Tracers work both ways.

  10. #231
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    4,374
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I disagree. I see links often as plagiarism. Nothing original, just hitchhiking on someone else's ideas. If someone tried to go through college using links they would fail. A person can quote to add a sense of history for instance but to link and say "see!!! I'm right. This link proves it." Anyone savvy about the Internet knows a counter link is just around the corner.
    You mentioned authoritative information as a reason to link. The reason an appeal to authority is considered an argumental falacy in logic is it avoids original thought. The idea behind a valid argument is originality or at least making your case not using someone else's ideas.
    You mentioned "Sane support" as a justification to link. It's not. Because the link isn't validated. Often just some blogger shooting their mouth off. I would rather read someone's argument with mistakes than see a weak kneed attempt to win the argument with someone's else's ideas. You could comment on a link in for instance to examine an argument but not the way so many embrace it as their own.
    I quoted James Carville before and I thinks it's worth repeating. "Proliferation of news sources" Americans seek out media outlets or websites to confirm their beliefs, rather than challenge themselves with hard information. "People use information for validation, not information. They use it like a drunk uses a lamp post."
    A valid argument needs no support. It stands by itself. BTW an argument doesn't have to be true to be valid. Just another reason to avoid links.
    I'm sorry but thats just pure nonsense. Thats like saying you never watch tv, for much of it is just a news reader just shooting their mouth off. Just because someone blogs, doesnt mean their information isnt any less valuable, and btw I dont like blogs, I rather converse using a forum such as this.

    All knowledge is build on someone elses information. When you read a book, your reading about someone leses experience, you may not agree with any of it, but never the less we share each others information or opinions, so we can be better informed.

    Btw I cant stand James Carville but that doesnt mean he doesnt have some information to share, whether you agree with him or not. Links are just sharing and conveying some information, claiming you never click on one...well...your just sticking your nose in the air, wanting to be special, your being snobby...lol

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  11. #232
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    A person doesn't have to go further then comparing Toronto with Detroit to see a vast difference. Any US American that has spent any amount of time in another country knows the US can be a dangerous place when compared. For some reason many people in the US seem to like it that way.
    When I see US football and all the talk abut how dangerous it is and how players suffer, "Change the game NO WAY"! they say. Fans like the danger. There wouldn't be a NASCAR without the crashes. The safer war becomes (in terms of deaths), using more technology and keeping the body count acceptable, the more probability for more wars. General Patton was right. Americans (US) love the sting of battle." (But not the body count.) This attitude can really puzzle a lot of the rest of the world. The Wild West has never really left us.
    You seem to miss the point. Robo was saying that crime in Canada was worse compared to yours because of our gun laws were more strict. He used an article that quoted a Canadian opinion writer that was supposedly taking data fro Statcan as proof. Since I could not find the article online where the Canadian writer gave his opinion I went to the Statcan website to get the government's data to see if indeed this journalist, the writers quoting him, and Robo were right or not.

    While I did not delve into every little detail, what I found confirmed my suspicion that maybe Robo, his source of information, and their Canadian source of information, might not pass the smell test. But without going to a reputable source, Statistics Canada, why would any believe me when I said I thought Canada did have less crime? I have done the same on health care topics when it has been stated here Canada lags well behind the US in care. Without the statistics to back me up how can any take me seriously when I say the level of care is comparable?

    The thing about links is that they can be checked by the reader and they can make up their mind whether the poster has a leg to stand on. It may take looking at the article that was quoted and then go to its source and then its source until you finally get to the point where you can make a good determination on the validity of the information being passed along. During this process you have time to do some critical thinking on what the information means to the discussion at hand. Some bother to do it, some do not.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  12. #233
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    The thing I've found about providing links is that in many cases it does no good, most people here have made up their mind and will not budge no matter how many links you throw at them.

  13. #234
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,496
    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    I'm sorry but thats just pure nonsense. Thats like saying you never watch tv, for much of it is just a news reader just shooting their mouth off. Just because someone blogs, doesnt mean their information isnt any less valuable, and btw I dont like blogs, I rather converse using a forum such as this.

    All knowledge is build on someone elses information. When you read a book, your reading about someone leses experience, you may not agree with any of it, but never the less we share each others information or opinions, so we can be better informed.

    Btw I cant stand James Carville but that doesnt mean he doesnt have some information to share, whether you agree with him or not. Links are just sharing and conveying some information, claiming you never click on one...well...your just sticking your nose in the air, wanting to be special, your being snobby...lol

    Roy
    Misunderstood. If there is a discussion and you quote an authority in that field that's one thing but what I see here is some linking to take the place of the hard work. Too often the link can cause one to draw other conclusions by association. Like saying Einstein was a genius and he believed in God. The association might be used to put forward a religious premise.
    When you say "All knowledge is built on someone else's information" I doubt you really mean "All knowledge" We process information differently and filter it through our unique personal biases. That's why many disagree here and everywhere. We aren't always informed, as we choose to accept or reject information. More commonly information is thrown into our personal mix where some things take on stronger or weaker importance.
    I'm not isolated from information. I probably see the same information you do. Mostly from the paper where the oped's are a real test of faith and tv. I don't click on links on ARP because I don't want to bother and I value an argument that stands on it's own.
    I don't know much about Carville but I thought his quote was on the button.
    Tracers work both ways.

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