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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    HMG! (Holder Must Go!), only in ARP, the DNC or Canada would anyone try to justify something as stupid as the Fast and Furious program by saying that people die when other government decisions are made.

    There is no justification for Fast and Furious! There is no justification for all of the people who have been murdered with guns that the U.S. government provided to the bad guys. All of those people people are dead because a bunch of leftist facists tried a really stupid thing in order to attempt to more heavily regulate guns in the U.S.

    The only thing more pathetic is for someone to claim there was justification for Fast and Furious while displaying guns that they can't even use as their avatar.
    Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Those that thought up F&F probably did not think it would come about to bite them back. As far as the guns supplied killing people, are you saying that the bad guys would not have killed them if they did not get the guns from your government? That they would not have gotten illegal guns another way? It sure does sound like it.

    Now I can't help you with telling the difference between explaining a position (a government must be able to act even if there is a possibility of error) with the agreement of a program that probably should not have seen the light of day. It seems that determining the difference might be too taxing for you. As far as the guns are concerned, I have used each one many times. Thankfully enough I live in a country where I feel no need to walk around in public with them. But if it ever came to a point where I felt I had to defend myself at home I would not be using any of the firearms shown. I do have a shotgun in a strategic location for that.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  2. #197
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    Eastern PA
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    There is no defense for or justification for the Fast and Furious program. Internal emails prove that the Fast and Furious program was designed to make it look like firearms from the U.S. too easily make their way into the hands of Mexican cartels in order to put more restrictions on firearms for Americans.

    Crime rates in countries with more restrictive gun laws are higher than in the U.S.;
    In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the
    United States.
    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...4/150547.shtml

    A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

    Fast and Furious provided Mexican drug cartels with weapons that were used to kill many people, including U.S. law enforcement officers. To try to justify Fast and Furious or defend Eric Holder over the implentation of Fast and Furious is a hateful and ridiculous way for even the most fascist leftest to do.

    Gun laws create crimes and turn otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens into criminals. The fact that I carried my 9mm around Canada for a week because I just never thought about it being illegal in Canada is proof that it is certainly not difficult for Canadians who want to get handguns to do so.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #198
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    Central Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    There is no defense for or justification for the Fast and Furious program. Internal emails prove that the Fast and Furious program was designed to make it look like firearms from the U.S. too easily make their way into the hands of Mexican cartels in order to put more restrictions on firearms for Americans.

    Crime rates in countries with more restrictive gun laws are higher than in the U.S.; http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...4/150547.shtml

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

    Fast and Furious provided Mexican drug cartels with weapons that were used to kill many people, including U.S. law enforcement officers. To try to justify Fast and Furious or defend Eric Holder over the implentation of Fast and Furious is a hateful and ridiculous way for even the most fascist leftest to do.

    Gun laws create crimes and turn otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens into criminals. The fact that I carried my 9mm around Canada for a week because I just never thought about it being illegal in Canada is proof that it is certainly not difficult for Canadians who want to get handguns to do so.
    Robo how you win a debate surronding gun regulation, is point out switerzland. You want to end violent crime. You mandate the requirement to own, and learn how to use and care for their weapons. To be honest, looking at switerzland for just about anything is good. Weak centeral govenrment, a well regulated militia.

    http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Robo how you win a debate surronding gun regulation, is point out switerzland. You want to end violent crime. You mandate the requirement to own, and learn how to use and care for their weapons. To be honest, looking at switerzland for just about anything is good. Weak centeral govenrment, a well regulated militia.

    http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html
    MeThinks a fundamental difference of attitude within the masses exists in Switzerland...

    Also; Folks in the USA do not believe in America anymore... and history teaches us when nationalistic pride goes away, so does the quality of the country.

    We in the USA have the govt and society we deserve... because we are not involved enough.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    MeThinks a fundamental difference of attitude within the masses exists in Switzerland...

    Also; Folks in the USA do not believe in America anymore... and history teaches us when nationalistic pride goes away, so does the quality of the country.

    We in the USA have the govt and society we deserve... because we are not involved enough.
    Yup, whats sad is that Switzerland has government and society that our founders wanted.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Robo how you win a debate surronding gun regulation, is point out switerzland. You want to end violent crime. You mandate the requirement to own, and learn how to use and care for their weapons. To be honest, looking at switerzland for just about anything is good. Weak centeral govenrment, a well regulated militia.

    http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html
    As said before, guns do not kill people, people do. So since Switzerland can own guns without killing each other why is it you have a problem?
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    MeThinks a fundamental difference of attitude within the masses exists in Switzerland...

    Also; Folks in the USA do not believe in America anymore... and history teaches us when nationalistic pride goes away, so does the quality of the country.

    We in the USA have the govt and society we deserve... because we are not involved enough.
    You beat me to it, attitude.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    As said before, guns do not kill people, people do. So since Switzerland can own guns without killing each other why is it you have a problem?
    I don't have a problem, I was trying to kill what It thought was about to turn into a gun control debate.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Crime rates in countries with more restrictive gun laws are higher than in the U.S.; http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...4/150547.shtml


    Gun laws create crimes and turn otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens into criminals. The fact that I carried my 9mm around Canada for a week because I just never thought about it being illegal in Canada is proof that it is certainly not difficult for Canadians who want to get handguns to do so.
    Could you please post the article by David Frum?


    Police-reported crime statistics, 2011

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...20724b-eng.htm
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  10. #205
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    Feb 2004
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    New Mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Oh you mean when our "Conservative " President let thoussnds of assault weapons walk to the cartels so the "Conservative" AG could invent the narrative of gun control based on our supposed inabillity to control the unflux of guns into Mexico ?

    You know the gun walking scandal that cost a federal agent his life.
    No, I didn't mean that at all and never mentioned F&F. I said conservatives control the cartels. You've made another argumental falacy. You can't just switch subjects to address a point.
    Tracers work both ways.

  11. #206
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    There is no defense for or justification for the Fast and Furious program. Internal emails prove that the Fast and Furious program was designed to make it look like firearms from the U.S. too easily make their way into the hands of Mexican cartels in order to put more restrictions on firearms for Americans.

    Crime rates in countries with more restrictive gun laws are higher than in the U.S.; http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...4/150547.shtml

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

    Fast and Furious provided Mexican drug cartels with weapons that were used to kill many people, including U.S. law enforcement officers. To try to justify Fast and Furious or defend Eric Holder over the implentation of Fast and Furious is a hateful and ridiculous way for even the most fascist leftest to do.

    Gun laws create crimes and turn otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens into criminals. The fact that I carried my 9mm around Canada for a week because I just never thought about it being illegal in Canada is proof that it is certainly not difficult for Canadians who want to get handguns to do so.
    Fast and furious is a criminal operation. Any idiot knows that weapons can be bought and smuggled to Mexico. It is going to happen. The feds making it happen for HUNDREDS of guns is inexcusable. No excuse. They may be tracing guns, but those guns have been traced to many murders. The feds should be involved in preventing such transfers, not making them. Anyone who advocates otherwise is insane.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

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  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Yup, whats sad is that Switzerland has government and society that our founders wanted.
    Perhaps the Swiss folks have more the attitude the founders expected to prevail... However methinks there are differences of govt. The Swiss govt is not really what the founders had in mind... albeit maybe closer than what we have today here in the USA.
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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    No, I didn't mean that at all and never mentioned F&F. I said conservatives control the cartels. You've made another argumental falacy. You can't just switch subjects to address a point.
    I am not picking on you... however I really need an explanation (one that can be tracked and proven by googling) of what you mean by the underlined statement above.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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