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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    .

    You want some advice ? Dont let your surroundings form your perceptions. Understand its an isolated subsection of society and in order to be truly objective you have to think past and transcend what your used to.

    I didn't grow up in a neighborhood like that. The stigma of illegal drugs was enough to keep us away from it until we matured to the point of realizing it was self destructive behaviour.

    And that stigma needs to remain and NOT for all the kids lost in a addiction but for the kids that will never in a milion years touch that crap.

    ?
    I didn't grow up in a neighborhood like that and nor do not live in a neighborhood like that either...but my eyes are OPEN.
    DRUGS ARE THERE!!!! ALCOHOL IS THERE!!! Its hidden from your view because of the laws and the drug dealers are smart enough not to put a sign up (or use underage kids who have a perpetual get out of jail free card)..but IT's THERE!!!!!

    Does not matter what neighborhood.

    Got a highschool age family member in an affluent neighborhood....got brand new car (mid sized SUV) for 16th birthday-fully loaded like his parents like to buy, honor society, straight A's, academic letters, got caught buying pot in that neighborhood from another kid from school.......


    you won't read about him on the news.....his parents have money and have cut a deal.....

    IT"S EVERYWHERE!
    Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.

    Give a man a capacitor, doesn't know what to do. Teach a man to install it, now he knows everything.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Prohibition might have been called progressive but it was controlling by nature and therefor conservative. All the really crappy movements in history were conservative in nature. Often confused with left/right politics. The commie leaders in China are conservatives. As was Hitler, Stalin etc. Conservative today is a controlling state of mind. They exist in every government, board room, street gang.
    Totally FALSE!

    China is not conservative, it is Communist.
    Hitler was a Facist.
    Stalin was a Socialist.

    NONE of these are anywhere near conservative...

    Obviously someone is either parroting, and they do not really know what they speak of.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  3. #29
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    It's naive to assume that its pervasive to the point that as a society we just have to give up and legalize these substances.

    Elf where ever you were born the advice stands. As intelligent thinking beings the best we can do is to search out the truth and for that you need to move away from your notions preconcieved or otherwise.

    The last question stands also. Actually if you legalized substances like Heroin, Crack and Meth I believe it would be much higher than 1 million.

    But if it makes you feel better if you were the one to make the final decision to legalize all drugs and you knew without a doubt 10 thousand people over 10 years would die including lots of kids would you do it ?

    And saying that "drugs are out there" doesnt really address the point of the op about legalization.

    Sure they're out there, but kids actually avoid them out of fear of going to prison

    Actually much more than you guys are ready to admit.

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Totally FALSE!

    China is not conservative, it is Communist.
    Hitler was a Facist.
    Stalin was a Socialist.

    NONE of these are anywhere near conservative...

    Obviously someone is either parroting, and they do not really know what they speak of.

    I think its the different definitions that conservative can be applied. I think of conservative as in to conserve resources. AKA small limited governments. Others think it means using government to conserve society. AKA a way to use government to control people so they don't change.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    It's naive to assume that its pervasive to the point that as a society we just have to give up and legalize these substances.

    Elf where ever you were born the advice stands. As intelligent thinking beings the best we can do is to search out the truth and for that you need to move away from your notions preconcieved or otherwise.

    The last question stands also. Actually if you legalized substances like Heroin, Crack and Meth I believe it would be much higher than 1 million.

    But if it makes you feel better if you were the one to make the final decision to legalize all drugs and you knew without a doubt 10 thousand people over 10 years would die including lots of kids would you do it ?

    And saying that "drugs are out there" doesnt really address the point of the op about legalization.

    Sure they're out there, but kids actually avoid them out of fear of going to prison

    Actually much more than you guys are ready to admit.
    That's the problem, kids don't avoid them because they are Juvenals and thus they don't go to prison and their records are sealed. It's not till they hit 19 when any sorta fear of consequences and they are all ready hooked.

    If drugs where legal, they people that currently use them would keep on using them, the people that don't use them still would not use them, and fear of jail would be gone so people who want help would be able to get it. You sound like a person with no experience what so ever. By the way. If you ended food stamps today a million people would die from starvation over 10 years. Do you see why your question is silly? You are doing the same exact thing liberals do with their social programs, but because you like this one its ok.

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    I think its the different definitions that conservative can be applied. I think of conservative as in to conserve resources. AKA small limited governments. Others think it means using government to conserve society. AKA a way to use government to control people so they don't change.
    Problem is... if we do not CORRECTLY define the word and learn/use the proper deff... we only muddy the political waters more.

    NOT a good thing for the country.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Problem is... if we do not CORRECTLY define the word and learn/use the proper deff... we only muddy the political waters more.

    NOT a good thing for the country.
    This is also part of the problem. The meaning of words is fluid. Its one of the things that has allowed for the expanding federal government. Strict limitations on federal power as set in the 1700's do not have the same meaning as they do today.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    That's the problem, kids don't avoid
    them because they are Juvenals and thus they don't go to prison and their records are sealed. It's not till they hit 19 when any sorta fear of consequences and they are all ready hooked.

    If drugs where legal, they people that currently use them would keep on using them, the people that don't use them still would not use them, and fear of jail would be gone so people who want help would be able to get it. You sound like a person with no experience what so ever. By the way. If you ended food stamps today a million people would die from starvation over 10 years. Do you see why your question is silly? You are doing the same exact thing liberals do with their social programs, but because you like this one its ok.
    You want to duck the question fine. Everyone else I've asked that to doesn't want to stand by their conviction either.

    Although you are the first one to bring food stamps into the discussion.

  9. #35
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    Comment on how to keep kids from doing drugs:

    AS we all know... running residential service calls one is in lots of houses. Sooner or later, one observes lots of behavior. My background was in home repair and remodeling... I was in the house longer than 30 min most of the time (sometimes weeks). One can observe a lot of behavior in that time. Here is what I saw:

    Homes where the husband and wife respect each other,
    Homes where that relationship is strong,
    Homes where there are rules that do not change with the wind and are enforced in love,
    Homes where the kids are loved and taken care of (kids spell love T I M E),
    Homes where things can be openly discussed, and there is no shame in asking a dumb question,
    Homes that follow traditional principles of the family.

    Those home rarely produce a rebel that gets in serious trouble. However:

    Homes with lieing and cheating...
    Homes with fighting,
    Homes with lots of stuff that is not discussed,
    Homes with unrealistic expectations...

    These homes can (not always) produce kids that will get in serious trouble.

    So whether a kid ruins his life on drugs is more based on whether the parenting was done well... or the home was a wreck.

    BTW: Lots of kids I knew when I was in high school tried pot... including myself. And most of those decided after a few times it was not for them. IMO testing the waters (in a thoughtful and careful way) is part of growing up. So to suggest a society with NO bad habits available is safer... well that is not reality.
    Ever wonder why a preacher's kid goes crazy when they go away to school... TOO much sheltering. They see life as it is for the first time, and they have no experience to make a decision and just say no.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post

    So whether a kid ruins his life on drugs is more based on whether the parenting was done well... or the home was a wreck.

    BTW: Lots of kids I knew when I was in high school tried pot... including myself. And most of those decided after a few times it was not for them. IMO testing the waters (in a thoughtful and careful way) is part of growing up. So to suggest a society with NO bad habits available is safer... well that is not reality.
    Ever wonder why a preacher's kid goes crazy when they go away to school... TOO much sheltering. They see life as it is for the first time, and they have no experience to make a decision and just say no.
    Well put.

    And x8 (or 9?) to toocools post, #3.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Well put.

    And x8 (or 9?) to toocools post, #3.
    One of the shaping factors of my childhood was asking the question 'why'... and watching my parents stumble and bluff because they could not answer it? I am not referencing things like why is the sky blue or the clouds grey... More things like why do folks never answer questions honestly, why do folks lie all the time and nobody cares... in general, why do folks live behind masks of denial and never address the issues. Thankfully, there was guidance from enough sources to keep me from becoming too much of a rebel... even though I did grow up in Texas... LOL

    And 'In My (maybe not so humble) Opinion': The FIRST place we as a society need to start asking tuff WHY questions is: the government... and make them answer or replace them. This idea of hand picking the folks who get to attend a campaign rally, so there will be no hecklers... well how does that not violate the first amendment? If the polecats want to lie and cheat... they need to be called out in public. This idea of an artificial image would go down the drain in a BIG hurry, and a lot more questions that should be asked, would be addressed.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-
    tech;14229491
    Comment on how to keep kids from doing drugs:

    AS we all know... running residential service calls one is in lots of houses. Sooner or later, one observes lots of behavior. My background was in home repair and remodeling... I was in the house longer than 30 min most of the time (sometimes weeks). One can observe a lot of behavior in that time. Here is what I saw:

    Homes where the husband and wife respect each other,
    Homes where that relationship is strong,
    Homes where there are rules that do not change with the wind and are enforced in love,
    Homes where the kids are loved and taken care of (kids spell love T I M E),
    Homes where things can be openly discussed, and there is no shame in asking a dumb question,
    Homes that follow traditional principles of the family.

    Those home rarely produce a rebel that gets in serious trouble. However:

    Homes with lieing and cheating...
    Homes with fighting,
    Homes with lots of stuff that is not discussed,
    Homes with unrealistic expectations...

    These homes can (not always) produce kids that will get in serious trouble.

    So whether a kid ruins his life on drugs is more based on whether the parenting was done well... or the home was a wreck.

    BTW: Lots of kids I knew when I was in high school tried pot... including myself. And most of those decided after a few times it was not for them. IMO testing the waters (in a thoughtful and careful way) is part of growing up. So to suggest a society with NO bad habits available is safer... well that is not reality.
    Ever wonder why a preacher's kid goes crazy when they go away to school... TOO much sheltering. They see life as it is for the first time, and they have no experience to make a decision and just say no.
    That family you describe is under attack in America from fringe groups that seek to marginalize the proven success that that kind of up bringing is known for.You also failed to mention a home that is grounded in faith and with a Father who has taken his role to be the spiritual leader.

    Thats part of the tradition too.

    That said and in reference to the OP the legalization of drugs would add to the number of failed marriages, spousal abuse, the dissolution of the family unit and the number of kids who suffered because of a bad upbringing.

    Also the old saying about the preachers daughter or son is more of an urban legend than truth.

    People are quick to call attention to and expose any son or daughter of a minister while ignoring every other basket case family that exist.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    That family you describe is under attack in America from fringe groups that seek to marginalize the proven success that that kind of up bringing is known for.You also failed to mention a home that is grounded in faith and with a Father who has taken his role to be the spiritual leader.

    Thats part of the tradition too.

    That said and in reference to the OP the legalization of drugs would add to the number of failed marriages, spousal abuse, the dissolution of the family unit and the number of kids who suffered because of a bad upbringing.

    Also the old saying about the preachers daughter or son is more of an urban legend than truth.

    People are quick to call attention to and expose any son or daughter of a minister while ignoring every other basket case family that exist.
    Agree on the Father, strong Father image, Spiritual leader, and Faith... left those out on purpose to avoid the usual religious arguments (and potential sexist arguments) we get at ARP...
    Truth be known... I have seen many families without the spiritual part... who worked fine.
    I have seen many families with the Spiritual part that worked GREAT.

    And yes, I know there are attacks on the traditional family... as there are attacks on every aspect of life. One cannot fix a society so there are not bad things... rather one has to learn to be strong enough to handle life. Adversity is what grows the strength in one's character! Christ was NOT a wimp... that is clear! And I challenge anybody to go 40 days without food, and then resist temptation...

    I need to differ with you on the PK thingy being urband legend... I have spent most of my life involved in ministry, know literally hundreds of folks in ministry vocation over the last 40+ years. And I can tell you a significant minority of their kids are BRATS. The reason is simple: It is a mix of the phony image they put forward, along with the Father (and sometimes the Mother also), spending too much time doing ministry stuff and not spending time with each other and the kids. Having said that... I do agree we see lots of folks in churches whose lives are a mess. At least they are mature enough to admit it and seek help (God). Most secular folks I know who's lives are a mess are too proud to admit it to themselves, and their lives continue to be a mess.

    It is not how good I am... it is whether I am teachable... that matters. Scripture is CLEAR on that one.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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