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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    .... funny I don't see very many mafia people moving booze these days. Evidence seems to contradict your statements.

    You might want to read up on Portugal transition to decriminalize drugs.
    You want to go live in Portugal and do drugs to your hearts content be my geust. I mean whats stopping you.

    You also may want to look into the wide spread problem of underage drinking.

    The evidence contradicts your opinion.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    You want to go live in Portugal and do drugs to your hearts content be my geust. I mean whats stopping you.

    You also may want to look into the wide spread problem of underage drinking.

    The evidence contradicts your opinion.
    Really? What evidence? Would you please show it to me. I'm waiting.

    Doing drugs is stupid. I don't even drink. That does not give you the right to ban it for others. If they chose to do drugs that's there decision. Of course if they mess up their body, they get no help. No state rehab. Employers still have the right to not employ drug addicts, including the morons that think drugs are bad but I'm going to go out and drink a 12 pack of bud.

    Do you drink?

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Really? What evidence? Would you plea
    se show it to me. I'm waiting.

    Doing drugs is stupid. I don't even drink. That does not give you the right to ban it for others. If they chose to do drugs that's there decision. Of course if they mess up their body, they get no help. No state rehab. Employers still have the right to not employ drug addicts, including the morons that think drugs are bad but I'm going to go out and drink a 12 pack of bud.

    Do you drink?
    Where are under age kids getting their booze from ?? My general point is that they ARE getting it.

    OK now flood the States with illegal drugs by making them legal but "regulated" and you will really have wasted an entire generation of kids.

    Im a Conservative. I believe in the rule of law. That to an extent to verify a somewhat ordered and safr society people CAN NOT be completely left to their own devices. You want to live in that type of society well then let me point you towards Haiti, or Mogadishu.

    If you think you're a "true" Conservative but believe drugs should be legalized well then let me correct you. You are actually a Libertarian.

    I have the right and reasonable expectation to raise my kids in a society that is not sinking in its own depravity.

    And no I dont drink or do drugs of any kind.

    We were not designed to stumble through life under the influence of toxic mind altering chemicals.

    Nor were we made to be stationary, 100 pounds over weight sitting in front of a lighted screen eating Funyons and sucking down High Corn Starch Filled Bevarages.

    You see its bad for our health, shows a lack of character and poor will power. You are not a 100% high on anything.

    Unfortunately NOW would be the worst time to legalize drugs. When so many Americans have NO CONCEPT of personql responsibillity. And they pass that on to their Children.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Where are under age kids getting their booze from ?? My general point is that they ARE getting it.

    OK now flood the States with illegal drugs by making them legal but "regulated" and you will really have wasted an entire generation of kids.

    Im a Conservative. I believe in the rule of law. That to an extent to verify a somewhat ordered and safr society people CAN NOT be completely left to their own devices. You want to live in that type of society well then let me point you towards Haiti, or Mogadishu.

    If you think you're a "true" Conservative but believe drugs should be legalized well then let me correct you. You are actually a Libertarian.

    I have the right and reasonable expectation to raise my kids in a society that is not sinking in its own depravity.

    And no I dont drink or do drugs of any kind.

    We were not designed to stumble through life under the influence of toxic mind altering chemicals.

    Nor were we made to be stationary, 100 pounds over weight sitting in front of a lighted screen eating Funyons and sucking down High Corn Starch Filled Bevarages.

    You see its bad for our health, shows a lack of character and poor will power. You are not a 100% high on anything.

    Unfortunately NOW would be the worst time to legalize drugs. When so many Americans have NO CONCEPT of personql responsibillity. And they pass that on to their Children.

    You don't seem to get this point. ITS EASIER TO GET DRUGS THEN ALCOHOL. It was when I was in school and it's easier now. To get alcohol you have to convince someone you know to give it to you. To get drugs you go down to the corner and buy a dime bag. It's easier to get it from the thug. It's safer to get it from the thug.

    I agree with you about drugs. Like I said I don't even drink

    The state you describe all ready exists. This is not some future that will happen, it is all ready here.

    The restriction on drugs failed, the same as prohibition. It has fueled massive amounts of funds into drug cartels, and has allowed for the militarization of police in this country. Billions of dollars wasted on people that are going to keep on doing drugs no matter the cost to there lives.

    Fun fact. The united states of america leads the world in incarcerated people. The USA has 25% of the worlds prison population within it's borders, the majority of them non-violent first time drug offenders. This is not a good thing.

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Where are under age kids getting their booze from ?? My general point is that they ARE getting it.

    That's Our point too....you can't stop them from getting it....just not from some gang member


    OK now flood the States with illegal drugs by making them legal but "regulated" and you will really have wasted an entire generation of kids.

    No-Educate them-they are going to get them anyway whether they are legal or not-

    Im a Conservative. I believe in the rule of law. That to an extent to verify a somewhat ordered and safr society people CAN NOT be completely left to their own devices. You want to live in that type of society well then let me point you towards Haiti, or Mogadishu.

    Why not???? I believe in the rule of law also and follow all the rules. FREEDOM RULES-but that is forgotten in this "big brother world" where everyone sticks their nose in every one else business!
    If you think you're a "true" Conservative but believe drugs should be legalized well then let me correct you. You are actually a Libertarian.

    I have the right and reasonable expectation to raise my kids in a society that is not sinking in its own depravity.

    Sure can, you don't have to send your kids to school you can homeschool.

    And no I dont drink or do drugs of any kind.

    We were not designed to stumble through life under the influence of toxic mind altering chemicals.

    Unfortunately..some people are.

    Nor were we made to be stationary, 100 pounds over weight sitting in front of a lighted screen eating Funyons and sucking down High Corn Starch Filled Bevarages.

    Unfortunately, thats what some people want to do and MORE POWER TO THEM. FREEDOM to choose

    You see its bad for our health, shows a lack of character and poor will power. You are not a 100% high on anything.

    Unfortunately NOW would be the worst time to legalize drugs. When so many Americans have NO CONCEPT of personql responsibillity. And they pass that on to their Children.
    Comments above....
    Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.

    Give a man a capacitor, doesn't know what to do. Teach a man to install it, now he knows everything.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Where are under age kids getting their booze from ?? My general point is that they ARE getting it.

    OK now flood the States with illegal drugs by making them legal but "regulated" and you will really have wasted an entire generation of kids.

    Im a Conservative. I believe in the rule of law. That to an extent to verify a somewhat ordered and safr society people CAN NOT be completely left to their own devices. You want to live in that type of society well then let me point you towards Haiti, or Mogadishu.

    If you think you're a "true" Conservative but believe drugs should be legalized well then let me correct you. You are actually a Libertarian.

    I have the right and reasonable expectation to raise my kids in a society that is not sinking in its own depravity.

    And no I dont drink or do drugs of any kind.

    We were not designed to stumble through life under the influence of toxic mind altering chemicals.

    Nor were we made to be stationary, 100 pounds over weight sitting in front of a lighted screen eating Funyons and sucking down High Corn Starch Filled Bevarages.

    You see its bad for our health, shows a lack of character and poor will power. You are not a 100% high on anything.

    Unfortunately NOW would be the worst time to legalize drugs. When so many Americans have NO CONCEPT of personql responsibillity. And they pass that on to their Children.
    I gotta ask, it what world is it that using government to control people's behavior in any way shape or form Conservative? In the '20s leading up to prohibition the people advocating it where called Progressives.

  7. #20
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    Not sure about a writer that doesn't use their name (End The Lie) but anyway do I disagree? Let me count the ways. We know there are many that profit from keeping drugs illegal. I've worked in a number of their prisons. Also the cop shops really really like their SWAT equipment almost as much as using it. But the argument that drugs would become too cheap (because pot is a weed) doesn't fly. Pot might have been a weed at one time but today's QC creates a product that has little resemblance to that plant. As much work that goes into modern pot plants it won't ever be cheap.
    Also left out of the script was the one issue that would apply if legal. Taxation. As long as taxes are part of the solution they will also add to the costs. A so called Sin Tax.
    When the writer said if made legal, 1.5 trillion bucks would disappear. Say What??? Even I can't make 1.5 trillion go away. Like to where would it go. Maybe Iraq. No wait, that was only billions. That's ridiculous.
    His statement about copyrights for pot by big corporates is partly true but he doesn't submit that others can also copyright strains and even though the corporates would like to have the whole enchilada there are others even now that are keeping natural foods (heirloom veggies)alive and will continue.
    He mentions opium poppies as hard to grow. No so hard really and anyone can buy them at most seed suppliers. BUT, opium is not heroin and that base process isn't a slam dunk ether.
    I'm sure we realize legalizing any drug would involve the government and taxes like alcohol. To make alcohol like shine is a cheap and natural process but the makers risk adds to the cost. Make it legal and the taxes add to the cost.
    History tells us when opium was legal in the last century NYC had as many as 100000 adicts. Most wouldn't want to repeat that so it's not legal. How many heroin adicts does NYC have now?
    The base of his argument that drugs would become too cheap doesn't fly.
    The bigest contribution the War on Drugs has is ruining lives.
    Tracers work both ways.

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    I gotta ask, it what world is it that using government to control people's behavior in any way shape or form Conservative? In the '20s leading up to prohibition the people advocating it where called Progressives.
    Prohibition might have been called progressive but it was controlling by nature and therefor conservative. All the really crappy movements in history were conservative in nature. Often confused with left/right politics. The commie leaders in China are conservatives. As was Hitler, Stalin etc. Conservative today is a controlling state of mind. They exist in every government, board room, street gang.
    Tracers work both ways.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Prohibition might have been called progressive but it was controlling by nature and therefor conservative. All the really crappy movements in history were conservative in nature. Often confused with left/right politics. The commie leaders in China are conservatives. As was Hitler, Stalin etc. Conservative today is a controlling state of mind. They exist in every government, board room, street gang.

    Conservative has nothing to do with controlling. Progressive was a movement of progressing society through government controls. AKA messing with peoples lives to make them better. It's still going on today. I think you are confusing conservatives with Neo-Conservatives which actually have nothing to do with conservatives. Neo-conservatives are progressives that want to control others at the point of a gun.

    Oh fun fact concerning the idea of taxing drugs. The original taxes that supported the federal government was taxes on drugs, alcohol and prostitution.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    I gotta ask, it what world is it that using
    government to control people's behavior in any way shape or form Conservative? In the '20s leading up to prohibition the people advocating it where called Progressives.
    You're kidding right ? Laws dont change people's behaviour ? Punishments in the way of fines, incareration pr the death penalty to punish the individual for his actions but also serve as a warning to others that maybe they should think twice before doing something stupid.

    Why would your local PD put up bill boards and put out PSAs to "affect the behaviour " of people that might drink and drive ?

    Laws and their punishments are explicitly un place to change behavior.

    And you guys that say that its "already like that " need to tone down on the hyperbole.
    Last edited by Six; 09-19-2012 at 06:55 PM.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    You're kidding right ? Laws dont change people's behaviour ? Punishments in the way of fines, incareration pr the death penalty to punish the individual for his actions but also serve as a warning to others that maybe they should think twice before doing something stupid.

    Why would your local PD put up bill boards and put out PSAs to "affect the behaviour " of people that might drink and drive ?

    Laws and their punishments are explicitly un place to change behavior.

    And you guys that say that its "already like that " need to tone doqn on the hyperbole.
    Laws and their punishments have done nothing. Cocaine is cheaper and easier to get now then it was during the 70's. The same can be said for every class of narcotics in the united states. Since the war on drugs, they have become cheaper, easier to get, more addictive, and more destructive. The war on drugs has created a captive market with a profit rate in the area of 3000%.

    P.S. This is not hyperbole. This is growing up in rural upstate NY where much of the local industry has become Meth and ecstasy production. Most of my friends where people that destroyed there lives at raves. It stuns me to know that people don't know how easy it is to put your hands on drugs. This not inner city NY or LA either this is little 5000 town in upstate NY. This is what happens with the war on drugs. You try some. You get caught once. You go to jail. Your life is ruined forever. While in prison you get an apprenticeship in hard crime and violence. You go in an irresponsible adventurist kid, you come out a harden criminal. I have seen this process in several friends, so don't tell me it's hyperbole. And most of this crap came from the generation of "free love". What a bunch of hypocrites.

    The only things that effect a persons likely hood of doing drugs is what you already brought up. How you where raised.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Laws and their punishments hav
    e done nothing. Cocaine is cheaper and easier to get now then it was during the 70's. The same can be said for every class of narcotics in the united states. Since the war on drugs, they have become cheaper, easier to get, more addictive, and more destructive. The war on drugs has created a captive market with a profit rate in the area of 3000%.

    P.S. This is not hyperbole. This is growing up in rural upstate NY where much of the local industry has become Meth and ecstasy production. Most of my friends where people that destroyed there lives at raves. It stuns me to know that people don't know how easy it is to put your hands on drugs. This not inner city NY or LA either this is little 5000 town in upstate NY. This is what happens with the war on drugs. You try some. You get caught once. You go to jail. Your life is ruined forever. While in prison you get an apprenticeship in hard crime and violence. You go in an irresponsible adventurist kid, you come out a harden criminal. I have seen this process in several friends, so don't tell me it's hyperbole. And most of this crap came from the generation of "free love". What a bunch of hypocrites.

    The only things that effect a persons likely hood of doing drugs is what you already brought up. How you where raised.
    To listen to some of you guys I get the impression that your living in this Mad Max kind of reality where anarchy is the prevailing form of government.

    And yes for a sustained system of anarchy there would have to be order, laws, hierchy. Its why Anarchist are so so dumb. They dont realize their choice of government is a contradiction.

    You want some advice ? Dont let your surroundings form your perceptions. Understand its an isolated subsection of society and in order to be truly objective you have to think past and transcend what your used to.

    I didn't grow up in a neighborhood like that. The stigma of illegal drugs was enough to keep us away from it until we matured to the point of realizing it was self destructive behaviour.

    And that stigma needs to remain and NOT for all the kids lost in a addiction but for the kids that will never in a milion years touch that crap.

    And there are plenty of kids out there like that.

    If it were up to you to throw the proverbial switch that would instantly legalize all drugs but you knew with out a doubt over the next 10 years it would cost the lives of over a million people, would you do it ?

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    To listen to some of you guys I get the impression that your living in this Mad Max kind of reality where anarchy is the prevailing form of government.

    And yes for a sustained system of anarchy there would have to be order, laws, hierchy. Its why Anarchist are so so dumb. They dont realize their choice of government is a contradiction.

    You want some advice ? Dont let your surroundings form your perceptions. Understand its an isolated subsection of society and in order to be truly objective you have to think past and transcend what your used to.

    I didn't grow up in a neighborhood like that. The stigma of illegal drugs was enough to keep us away from it until we matured to the point of realizing it was self destructive behaviour.

    And that stigma needs to remain and NOT for all the kids lost in a addiction but for the kids that will never in a milion years touch that crap.

    And there are plenty of kids out there like that.

    If it were up to you to throw the proverbial switch that would instantly legalize all drugs but you knew with out a doubt over the next 10 years it would cost the lives of over a million people, would you do it ?

    Everything you just said applies to your upbringing. I did not grow up in a bad neighboorhood. I did not grow up in an inner city. I grew up near farms with with local manufacturing. How old are you? 40-60? I wonder if you really know what your kids have been exposed to. In my experince the ones with the more sheltering parents tend to be the wild ones.

    If drugs where legal tomorrow, would your kids run out to do some? Do they tell you dad, I really really want to try crack, its a good thing those laws are there to protect me from myself.

    People who are going to do drugs are going to do it no matter the laws, and people who don't are going not do drugs no matter the laws. The laws don't set morality. Parents and peers do. I'm sorry that you think that the people around you would go on a wild bing if they where legal. I think they are people who should be allowed to set their own course. I do find it funny how some people seem to think that people should be dependent on the state for their morality and nothing else.

    I do find it slightly amusing that you think legalization of drugs for 10 years would result in a million people dead when 10 years of the war on drugs would result in far more deaths do to overdose, violent crime, and people who have had their lives ruined by it.

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