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  1. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpit View Post
    If the PAYING CUSTOMER gets hurt from a product such as the one in question, mr. homeowner will be right there suing the tech who let the faulty product stay in service. there comes a point that the contractor has to look out for himself.
    Which is why I said earlier that I'd sign away my rights to sue, and that I'd been informed of the risks, blah, blah, blah.

    I shut down a bowling alley on the weekend of a big tournament, because of their dangerous furnaces. They weren't happy. My wife's boss was scheduled to bowl that weekend. Didn't make her happy. I did my job.
    That is a different situation. It's a business, and risking the safety of the public.





    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Now, as for the technician's legal authority, this is a grey area. However, having worked on this issue for a major fireplace mfr.'s legal team, I can assure you if a technician finds an installation that meets the definition of "dangerous" yet fails to tag out/ lock out or document informing the client, he takes on a HUGE liability. Basically, a Tag Out/ Lock Out or TOLO is to protect the occupants from injury and to legally protect the technician and his employer.
    Specifically in this thread, the only danger is when first turning on the appliance. If the homeowner is willing to stand back and remove his face from the fireplace glass, there is no danger.

    Again, I'd be willing to sign away my rights to sue you, but I won't sign away my rights to boot your ass out the door if you decide to sabotage my appliances.

    FYI, the technician can take you to small claims court and collect for the service call because he did what he was supposed to do--inspect the system for problems and hazards.
    And you'd win, but it would not be worth your time. If you're vindictive enough to sue customers after you sabotage their equipment, then my perceptions are validated.

    Think about why you call a professional technician in the first place: to inspect and service the unit. Would you want a car mechanic to change your oil even if he saw your brake line cut or steering linkage separating? To do so would imply the car was fit to drive, which it is not.
    A car mechanic doesn't confiscate my car if he sees I have problem brakes. He informs me of the defect, explains the risks, and then lets me decide what I want to do.

    You guys sound like you're on some kind of power trip. I'd like to see you try that against someone that doesn't take kindly to your smug attitude. I hope your next Majestic fireplace service call is at a biker gang club house.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario
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    4,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles4 View Post
    I hope your next Majestic fireplace service call is at a biker gang club house.

    Funny you should mention that...

    http://www.nowpublic.com/crime/ed-sc...y-b-c-killings

    Just doing his job.

    It's hard working on fireplaces from a pedestal, I can tell you.
    Is this a Fabreze moment? C.Y.D. I'm voting white elephant. 2.
    My competition are my best salespeople!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles4 View Post
    Which is why I said earlier that I'd sign away my rights to sue, and that I'd been informed of the risks, blah, blah, blah.



    That is a different situation. It's a business, and risking the safety of the public.







    Specifically in this thread, the only danger is when first turning on the appliance. If the homeowner is willing to stand back and remove his face from the fireplace glass, there is no danger.

    Again, I'd be willing to sign away my rights to sue you, but I won't sign away my rights to boot your ass out the door if you decide to sabotage my appliances.



    And you'd win, but it would not be worth your time. If you're vindictive enough to sue customers after you sabotage their equipment, then my perceptions are validated.



    A car mechanic doesn't confiscate my car if he sees I have problem brakes. He informs me of the defect, explains the risks, and then lets me decide what I want to do.

    You guys sound like you're on some kind of power trip. I'd like to see you try that against someone that doesn't take kindly to your smug attitude. I hope your next Majestic fireplace service call is at a biker gang club house.

    The problem is, you cant just sign your right to sue away. You can always come back and claim ignorance, signing that piece of paper without legal representation, and not notarized, is weak in court. Yes it is better than nothing, but courts side with homeowners because homeowners are notoriously retarded and cant be held liable for some piece of paper signed.

    The other issue is when you do have a fireplace like that, that is deemed unsafe. If there ever would be a claim for fire damage(for whatever reason) they will find that you are using a non certified piece of equipment, and then you get handed the bill. Then you as a homeowner turn on the tech that "repaired" you fireplace and sue him for damages(see above for how that turns out).
    Last edited by darthvader; 09-21-2012 at 10:50 AM. Reason: forgot another point

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
    Posts
    1,090
    [QUOTE=Charles4;14237261]Which is why I said earlier that I'd sign away my rights to sue, and that I'd been informed of the risks, blah, blah, blah.



    That is a different situation. It's a business, and risking the safety of the public.

    Signing a piece of paper would not provide legal protection for a contractor . Your lawyer would laugh all the way to the bank.

    Blah , Blah, Blah ,wouldn't do it.

    I'm guessing you never have company, kids sleeping over or parties.

    Or perhaps you are just as flippant in your attitude towards their safety.

    But, in the case of an accident in such a situation as is being discussed, I believe THEIR lawyer would have a lot more to say than just blah, blah, blah.

    Not to mention the police and prosecutor when they learned you knew of the situation.

    blah, blah, blah.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
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    1,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles4 View Post
    Which is why I said earlier that I'd sign away my rights to sue, and that I'd been informed of the risks, blah, blah, blah.



    That is a different situation. It's a business, and risking the safety of the public.







    Specifically in this thread, the only danger is when first turning on the appliance. If the homeowner is willing to stand back and remove his face from the fireplace glass, there is no danger.

    Again, I'd be willing to sign away my rights to sue you, but I won't sign away my rights to boot your ass out the door if you decide to sabotage my appliances.



    And you'd win, but it would not be worth your time. If you're vindictive enough to sue customers after you sabotage their equipment, then my perceptions are validated.



    A car mechanic doesn't confiscate my car if he sees I have problem brakes. He informs me of the defect, explains the risks, and then lets me decide what I want to do.

    You guys sound like you're on some kind of power trip. I'd like to see you try that against someone that doesn't take kindly to your smug attitude. I hope your next Majestic fireplace service call is at a biker gang club house.
    As for the biker thing. You really don't know some of us. Nor do you know our friends. I've rarely met a candy-ass hvac guy.

    And I know a lot of bikers, some in the trade!

    The ABATE meets here every year. Many of them are very nice people.


    I haven't met one of them that didn't have more sense than you.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario
    Posts
    4,622
    The truth is, and you are correct in saying my ability to shut your equipment down is limited to walking, or being thrown out, your door. You can do what you want, but I still have to cross my eyes and dot my tees.

    Reconnect & restart at your own peril. I am not your keeper.

    I'll ask for a sig on a red tag, but by no means do I require it. I just have to send in notification to the authority. At that point, my ties to it are complete and my licenses safe.
    Is this a Fabreze moment? C.Y.D. I'm voting white elephant. 2.
    My competition are my best salespeople!

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,180
    Charles, the public welfare is not just you as the current owner of the equipment but those of us who might have cause to enter your dangerous property, possibly even sleep over or the next buyer of your house.

    The hazards with these fireplaces you state are based upon what limited information you have. Also, I doubt you've never witnessed a delayed ignition on a fireplace. Part of the UL listing process is a delayed ignition test. They inject NG to a 10% fuel/ air mix then ignite the bomb. It can be felt for blocks and register on Richter Scales. The fireplace must be capably of venting the overpressure in multiple tests without blowing its seams apart, shattering the glass or other damage. BTW, when that glass shatters from a delayed igntion, it is like a beehive round going off focused towards the front. I've investigated multiple injury cases and it ain't pretty. People have been blinded, shredded, burned, cut, ear damage, etc. Also, if the explosion is severe enough, the box may not be capable of withstanding it. Some units prone to delayed ignition can be fixed simply be a re-design of the burner, orifice, venting, etc.

    I'm not being arrogant--just practical because what I say is based upon experience that you don't have or care to listen to. Suite yourself. BTW, if you allow someone into your house with a known hazard and fail to warn them or mitigate the hazard and they get hurt, you could go to jail for gross negligence and reckless endangerment.

    Thinking you can turn your face away and there is no danger is pure nonsense and narcissism. You speak of what you know nothing about. Good luck with your fireplace.

  8. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Thinking you can turn your face away and there is no danger is pure nonsense and narcissism. You speak of what you know nothing about. Good luck with your fireplace.
    Pot, kettle, black.

    BTW, it's not my fireplace. Just trying to stick up for the little guy so he doesn't get ripped off or robbed of his property.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simcoe, ON Canada
    Posts
    43
    i've replaced a couple of these now. Most people are quite happy to have me deactivate the potential bomb in the corner. Concerns over the potential for danger are and peace of mind have a much higher value than the replacement cost of a fireplace.

  10. #23
    You guys love selling fear and using extortion to get customers to fork over their hard-earned money to you. Good for you... you must feel proud.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simcoe, ON Canada
    Posts
    43
    FYI the first customer saw the report on the news and came in to ask me to look after it. The second received a call from the original store that sold it to them and then came in to see me to look after it. I comply with the law, I let people know their options and make their decisions. I never coerce people into purchasing and they can always go somewhere else if they don't appreciate what I have to say.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,000
    Charles or Kitty or whatever your name is. Time to chill out. With each post you become more combative now to the silly extreme.

    These guys, like most of our working members here, are professionals in their specific industry. Shown here by their willingness to interact not only with each other but to assist those who may ask questions of them. It is not your place to knock them for for doing so.

    There are regulations in any industry and laws that must be obeyed. Ours may be more reliant on saving certain people from themselves than you realize. Seems you are a prime example. Interaction that becomes belligerent is uncalled for and will not be allowed on this site.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Kingston,Ontario
    Posts
    50

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Dad View Post
    Charles or Kitty or whatever your name is. Time to chill out. With each post you become more combative now to the silly extreme.

    These guys, like most of our working members here, are professionals in their specific industry. Shown here by their willingness to interact not only with each other but to assist those who may ask questions of them. It is not your place to knock them for for doing so.

    There are regulations in any industry and laws that must be obeyed. Ours may be more reliant on saving certain people from themselves than you realize. Seems you are a prime example. Interaction that becomes belligerent is uncalled for and will not be allowed on this site.
    Well said.

    Had a customer like Charles/Kitty last week with one of these stoves. Lost it when I said I had to deactivate it. He followed me all the way to my truck, cursing, name calling, threats, etc... reached into the back of my truck and pulled out a big adjustable wrench.

    Pretty sure the customer pee'd a little, thinking I was going to beat him half to death with my wrench....walked quickly to his house screaming that he was calling the cops....I said, " good, call the gas company while you're at it and tell them I shut off your meter."

    Think I did "sell a little fear" that day.

    Laws are laws....some I agree with, some I don't. Bottom line is, we all have to play by the same rules....like it or not. Would love to run over my ex wife with my work truck....but there's laws against that....such is life

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