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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario
    Posts
    4,622

    Majestic Fireplaces

    I received a notice from TSSA this morning concerning Majestic m/n FSDV22, FSDV30
    and FSDV32 direct vented fireplaces.

    They are now deemed illegal in Ontario. All approvals have been revoked. Any of these fireplaces, natural gas or propane are to be disconnected and use terminated. Something about the glass shattering due to the pressure relief damper not being able to handle a large delayed ignition.

    Anyone else get this notice?
    Is this a Fabreze moment? C.Y.D. I'm voting white elephant. 2.
    My competition are my best salespeople!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    118
    Nope never got this letter yet are you a majestic dealer?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    118
    Nevermind I just found they went bankrupt in 2008

  4. #4
    If I understand the problem correctly, the fireplace glass may shatter because of sudden pressure caused by igniting built-up gas if the ignition is delayed a few seconds after turning on the fireplace. That is, there's a "whoosh" when the fireplace turns on, and it might cause enough pressure for the glass to break. I presume the problem is because of a problem damper, weak glass, or an ignition system that takes too long to light the flames, or all of the above.

    If that's the only problem, it sounds like the only danger is when you first turn on the fireplace, and there's no danger once the fireplace is lit.

    I don't want to minimize that danger, but as an adult, now that you know the danger, why don't you just stand back when you flip on the wall switch to light the fireplace?

    If you have small children around that don't understand the danger, then obviously you would want to shut off the gas unless you were present to light the fireplace.

    Anyway, since the company is bankrupt and you are stuck with the fireplace, why not just use it cautiously?


    Disclaimer: I know I'll get jumped on about the safety issue, especially from people who would make a living selling and installing you a new fireplace. I also caution you about the safety issue. I'm just saying, that as an adult without young children, I might be personally willing to continue to use the fireplace carefully, despite what the government tells me to do in my own home.

    Disclaimer2: If I'm wrong about my assumptions about the problem, all bets are off of course. And disclaimer3, never take advice from someone you don't know on the Internet! ;-)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario
    Posts
    4,622
    As a gas fitter, TSSA makes it my responsibility to shut these down if and when I see them.

    25 years from now, if I have 15 minutes between jobs, which leads to a chance encounter with a worn out thermopile, I'm still the last guy on it if it smashes the glass a week or a year afterwards.

    No, I wasn't a dealer, I just work on all kinds of equipment, fireplaces included.

    But, if I'm still working in 25 years, maybe I deserve it anyway...
    Is this a Fabreze moment? C.Y.D. I'm voting white elephant. 2.
    My competition are my best salespeople!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by gruntly View Post
    As a gas fitter, TSSA makes it my responsibility to shut these down if and when I see them.
    Ouch! I'll certainly never hire any serviceman for my fireplace if I know there's anything wrong with it that I'm willing to put up with.

    The fact that the government (or some agency of it) has the right to come into my home and shut off my appliances is pretty scary. Advice about the possible safety concerns I'd certainly appreciate, and I'd be willing to sign off that I'd been informed. Forcibly shutting stuff off I wouldn't appreciate... and likely neither would the serviceman after how I reacted.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario
    Posts
    4,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles4 View Post
    Ouch! I'll certainly never hire any serviceman for my fireplace if I know there's anything wrong with it that I'm willing to put up with.

    The fact that the government (or some agency of it) has the right to come into my home and shut off my appliances is pretty scary. Advice about the possible safety concerns I'd certainly appreciate, and I'd be willing to sign off that I'd been informed. Forcibly shutting stuff off I wouldn't appreciate... and likely neither would the serviceman after how I reacted.
    Well, that's the way it is up here. Red tag, shut'em off, inform the authority. Sorry customer, I am no longer involved. Deal with the government.
    Is this a Fabreze moment? C.Y.D. I'm voting white elephant. 2.
    My competition are my best salespeople!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    118
    Received the notice yesterday and we had a meeting about it at the shop this morning. There is going to be some upset customers out there.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
    Posts
    1,092
    If the PAYING CUSTOMER gets hurt from a product such as the one in question, mr. homeowner will be right there suing the tech who let the faulty product stay in service. there comes a point that the contractor has to look out for himself.

    I shut down a bowling alley on the weekend of a big tournament, because of their dangerous furnaces. They weren't happy. My wife's boss was scheduled to bowl that weekend. Didn't make her happy. I did my job.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,292
    Tagging and locking out equipment is supposedly not done indescriminantly but only in cases where the offending appliance has been deemed "dangerous" by ANSI stds. The Red Tag and lock out are done to protect homeowners from themselves. Consulting the homeowner would result in a LOT of dangerous appliances being left in service to injure people and damage property. Yes, the State has that right. Your local fire marshal, Authority Having Jurisdiction and in some areas trained technicians do. In some states, plumbers have the legal right to shut down a building with hazardous DWV piping. Now, as for the technician's legal authority, this is a grey area. However, having worked on this issue for a major fireplace mfr.'s legal team, I can assure you if a technician finds an installation that meets the definition of "dangerous" yet fails to tag out/ lock out or document informing the client, he takes on a HUGE liability. Basically, a Tag Out/ Lock Out or TOLO is to protect the occupants from injury and to legally protect the technician and his employer.

    Your attitude Charles just gives merit to this principle because you clearly do not get it. I'd rather lose one client's business than his life. FYI, the technician can take you to small claims court and collect for the service call because he did what he was supposed to do--inspect the system for problems and hazards. Lesser hazards may be reported to the client and written warnings documented. But we're talking serious issues, which you don't seem to care about. Think about why you call a professional technician in the first place: to inspect and service the unit. Would you want a car mechanic to change your oil even if he saw your brake line cut or steering linkage separating? To do so would imply the car was fit to drive, which it is not.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    118
    The cost of losing the customer is better than the liability if something happens. Its never happen to me but I have seen what happens when a technician cuts a customer a break and something goes wrong. I would never want to be in that situation.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,292
    Charles, the public welfare is not just you as the current owner of the equipment but those of us who might have cause to enter your dangerous property, possibly even sleep over or the next buyer of your house.

    The hazards with these fireplaces you state are based upon what limited information you have. Also, I doubt you've never witnessed a delayed ignition on a fireplace. Part of the UL listing process is a delayed ignition test. They inject NG to a 10% fuel/ air mix then ignite the bomb. It can be felt for blocks and register on Richter Scales. The fireplace must be capably of venting the overpressure in multiple tests without blowing its seams apart, shattering the glass or other damage. BTW, when that glass shatters from a delayed igntion, it is like a beehive round going off focused towards the front. I've investigated multiple injury cases and it ain't pretty. People have been blinded, shredded, burned, cut, ear damage, etc. Also, if the explosion is severe enough, the box may not be capable of withstanding it. Some units prone to delayed ignition can be fixed simply be a re-design of the burner, orifice, venting, etc.

    I'm not being arrogant--just practical because what I say is based upon experience that you don't have or care to listen to. Suite yourself. BTW, if you allow someone into your house with a known hazard and fail to warn them or mitigate the hazard and they get hurt, you could go to jail for gross negligence and reckless endangerment.

    Thinking you can turn your face away and there is no danger is pure nonsense and narcissism. You speak of what you know nothing about. Good luck with your fireplace.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Thinking you can turn your face away and there is no danger is pure nonsense and narcissism. You speak of what you know nothing about. Good luck with your fireplace.
    Pot, kettle, black.

    BTW, it's not my fireplace. Just trying to stick up for the little guy so he doesn't get ripped off or robbed of his property.

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