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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    tidewater, va
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    2,138
    For the wetheads here.

    1) Besides sending off for a chemical analysis,how can you determine if you are testing Ethylene or Propelyne? I have a freeze point indicated on the spec of 17 for ethylene and 21 for prop, both correspond to a lower concentration than the work order calls for. It is almost clear with a slight blueish tint, and I know the spcs called for ethelyne. We want 30 percent, but either way, I am looking at about 19 or 20 percent. I suppose that my only effect would be more chiller than needed.
    2) The system has a volume tank installed due to perceived short loop syndrome, however I have only one coil and one threeway valve on this loop and wonder if a "mixing" tank is needed as per the Application info I pulled on the unit. Please explain the mixing tank theory.


    Thanks,


    r404a

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    876
    I recommend sending it off... it's free from Dow on larger systems. This will not only tell you the %concentration but also other things. You will also need to know the exact system volume in order to calculate how much to remove and replace with pure glycol to achieve your desired ratio. I've used a product called Tracer that you introduce and send in a sample and they analyze the dilution to determine the volume. That was a few hundred extra, but necessary. Never heard of blueish.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,843
    You can't tell by the color.. the actual glycol is clear, and they'll mix it up in any color you want. Dow, Interstate, or others will analyze it for you pretty cheap.

    The tank you're talking about is probably what we call a "buffer" tank. You use those on a short loop, in the return from the coil to the chiller. The reason for having it is that on a small system (i.e. one ahu), the chiller can't unload itself fast enough when that control valve closes. If you have however many gallons sitting in that tank, the return water mixes into it, and the return temperature to the chiller doesn't change nearly as quickly. You don't have to worry about freezing the barrel when the control valve closes.
    "If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a KA." - Albert Einstein

    It's later than you think.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    tidewater, va
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    2,138
    Thank you guys. Ralph, would a Volume Tank, what you call a buffer tank, be a "Mixing" tank as well? Thanks.


    r404a

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,348
    according to Dow:

    Dowtherm SR-1: EG (Fluorescent Pink)
    Dowfrost: PG (Colorless)
    Dowtherm 4000: EG (Fluorescent Orange)
    Dowtherm HD: PG (Fluorescent Yellow)

    this doesn't mean you have these items, but it comes in handy when you do know. i have sent several samples in to Dow and some to a local water treatment shop. both have worked good enough for me.
    "Mother" is the name for God on the lips and hearts of children....The Crow

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,843
    Originally posted by r404a
    Ralph, would a Volume Tank, what you call a buffer tank, be a "Mixing" tank as well?
    I suppose you could call it that.

    Based on your comment about adding a tank to a short loop, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing.

    Do you have a piping diagram you could post?
    "If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a KA." - Albert Einstein

    It's later than you think.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,593
    Virgina KMP. 4100 Platinum Way, Dallas, TX 75237 Phone 214-330-7731 "Pipe Saver" is Blue. "Pipe Saver" is Propylene Glycol. In the old days we used to put a little on the end of our finger, just wetting the finger and taste it followed by a rinse and spit with fresh water. Propylene Glycol has no taste, dye may be slightly bitter. Ethylene Glycol taste sweet. Disclaimer: I'm not advising you directly to do this, what you do is up to you.

    [Edited by madhat on 10-04-2006 at 05:35 PM]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    876
    I had a new customer call and say his glycol was blue. I told him I've never seen blue glycol. How much of this additive is added? Is it enough to change the color? What is the glycol is pink or green and you add this blue stuff?

    [Edited by incontrol on 10-07-2006 at 10:35 PM]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,593
    "Pipe Saver" is Blue, it comes that way. It's often available from your local refrig supply at this time of the year and is often used in drain down situations where a little water may remain, as in a chilled water coil exposed to outside air. Also have seen it in rare occasions in circulating systems.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    187
    what about green? ethylene or propylene?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,593
    As far as green glycol, god only knows what was used. I've seen engine coolant in AC glycol systems, which should never be used in that application due to the silicates and inhibitors not being compatible with AC glycol systems. Go to Nu-calgon.com click on "Products" and then "Glycols." They have a "Blue" and a "Green" glycol. P.S. next time you have a can of Dr. Pepper in your hand look at the ingredient label.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    tidewater, va
    Posts
    2,138
    These are all great inputs. Thanks.

    r404a

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Victoria,Tx
    Posts
    6,680
    As far as I know the "Antifreeze" is called ethylene or propylene glycol. It does't make any difference what color it is. Just the freeze point. The green is being outdated. Cause puppys like to drink it. The others tend to gel under heat and time. When the closed loop system is in service for a year or two. Believe it or not things "Grow in the system". Then you have to flush it and add some kind of Biocide crap to it. Sort of like a diesel tractor. In the winter time the diesel fuel tend to gel. In the summer believe it or not growth will happen in the tank. And another thing, if set your water heater down to low. Bacteria will grow there also. This is because O2 is present
    in the system. If you can use condensate to fill, what I call the "Expansion Tank". If I were you I would only use the green in your car. Wow, this is not like me. I must be bored. Roy

    [Edited by oroy54 on 10-18-2006 at 11:33 PM]

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