X-13 Motor Problems Replacing NTC Thermister? - Page 3
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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    So, basically modules are now available for basic X13s eliminating the need to transfer blower wheel, right?
    Yes, Rheem does have the modules, but it is a question of whether they are in stock. I just went 2 days ago and they had some modules come in but they were not 1/2 hp I needed, so they gave me the whole motor/module. I checked the box and it did have the pink dot on it, just like the service bulletin said from mason.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,175
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    We've never really had a problem with ECM2.3 motors in either configuration, other than the occasional burned out thermistor in the module.
    I haven't noticed that particular failure as being more common in one than the other.

    According to the service bulletins out from a couple of different manufacturers, the X13 motors are having issues due to moisture. Moisture issues would be more common with the blower after the coil, due to the potential for either water blowing off the coil, or condensation in the motor.
    We've only installed one air handler that has an X13 motor after the coil, it was several years back, when the X13 first came out. No issues from it yet.
    The rest have been in gas furnaces, or American Standard ForeFront air handlers, so all have the motor before the coil.



    Are you checking wire to wire, or just to ground on each one?

    I'm not saying the bearings don't fail too, but 100% of the motors I've found with the "grinding, stuttering shaft" had a phase to phase short, and the bearings spun nice and smooth when I disassembled the motor, so I'm thinking most of the "bearing failures" people have had with them were really phase to phase shorts. My sample size of that type of failure in ECM motors is really low though, maybe 4 or 5, despite >10 years of almost every system we install having an ECM motor.

    It isn't terribly important, as the motor gets replaced either way, I just like to know exactly what happened.
    If I find an actual bearing failure on an out of warranty motor, I'd very seriously consider replacing the bearings instead of the whole motor. The bearings are easy to acquire, inexpensive, and easy to change.

    The X13 motor I retrofitted into the system in my home is a warranty motor that had a noisy bearing. The manufacturer didn't want it back, so I put new bearings in it and installed it in my system in place of the failing PSC motor.
    It took some wiring trickery, but it works very well. Since the speed taps use 24v input, and I have an Ecobee thermostat, I set the system up so it increases the airflow if the thermostat calls for 2nd stage cooling, and so it reduces the airflow if dehumidification is needed.
    My system is slightly more complicated than your typical Ruud 1997 vintage single stage 10 SEER AC and single stage 80% furnace.
    Wire to wire, 10.8 all around.

    Funny, before it was just a little hard to turn...still definately bad. After being on my bench for a couple weeks it's locked up tight.

    3.0 by the way.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    So put new bearings in it, you can get them from most any bearing supply.

    If you have one that spins freely, play around with jumpering the wires together, it gets surprisingly hard to turn when all 3 are jumpered together.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Over Here
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    If you have one that spins freely, play around with jumpering the wires together, it gets surprisingly hard to turn when all 3 are jumpered together.
    For fun, we take the modules off at the shop, chuck the shaft in a 1/2 drill, and make them generate power. Any two of the wires will light up a 6 light vanity fixture. It does make it hard to turn though!

    Wind generators operate similar. Shorting the output puts the brakes on.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    2,822
    I'm not sure but some of the failures that are being called bearings could be magnets coming lose and making the grinding noise.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    I'm not sure but some of the failures that are being called bearings could be magnets coming lose and making the grinding noise.
    I haven't seen that one yet, but I've talked to several people who have, and seen it mentioned in a couple of posts here.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    5,974
    I went to a house yesterday that had lightning strike yhe ground close to home.

    2 units both have 2.3 ecms and both had bad modules.

    Pulled housings out of units to inspect and both felt like electric brakes when spun manually.

    Unplug modules and shaft is free. Plug module back in and brakes come back.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,175
    Interesting. Along the lines of experimenting: How can I fire one of these puppies on the bench without it bolting away and taking out my drill press? Need some sort of load attached to it - only long enough to see it spin.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinhvac View Post
    Interesting. Along the lines of experimenting: How can I fire one of these puppies on the bench without it bolting away and taking out my drill press? Need some sort of load attached to it - only long enough to see it spin.
    Yeah, with no load they act goofy.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    368
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    I'm not sure but some of the failures that are being called bearings could be magnets coming lose and making the grinding noise.
    Got one that did that awhile back.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,310
    Quote Originally Posted by SBKold View Post
    I went to a house yesterday that had lightning strike yhe ground close to home.

    2 units both have 2.3 ecms and both had bad modules.

    Pulled housings out of units to inspect and both felt like electric brakes when spun manually.

    Unplug modules and shaft is free. Plug module back in and brakes come back.
    Sounds like output MOSFETs shorted. A common failure mode.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    In a house with windows and doors on it.
    Posts
    114
    Got another X13, been changing alot of them lately. my company A doesn't replace modules, replace the whole thing. I get tired of explaining to customers about them damn x13's i just printed off some flyers and let them read while i do my thing. most just shake their heads and mumble.

    my all time favorite x13 motor question im asked:

    cust: so im going to have to replace this thing every few years?

    me: holding back laughs and grins::thinking, damn right, you will: reply, no ma'am/sir improvements have been made to the motor/module design/layout blah blah blah.. while simultaneously processing the payment. labor warranty are lost of folks around here.

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