Regular Guest
@beshvac -I didn't have the paperwork when I responded yesterday...Outside unit is 25HBC536AW3...Carrier Variable Soeed Air Handler is FV4...Honeywell VisionPro 8000 Thermostat...
Professional Member*
Have the company come out and verify and document the airflow in cfm, temperatures inside and out humidity level in house,refrigerant pressures, supply and return temperatures and post that information. If the information is measured correctly it can be determined as to what is wrong with your system. Short run times and elevated humidity are directly related to over sized equipment.Originally Posted by CoastalWGSD
Professional Member*
25HBC is 15 Seer condenser and with FV4 002 to 006 size airhandlers it ranges from 14 to 15.5 Seer.
Just a wild guess from what you have posted earlier......you paid a pretty penny for that system from the company you ended up buying it from - to keep the owner on TV with his pretty little american flag bowtie ....Keep calling them back.
Last edited by beshvac; 09-21-2012 at 10:59 AM.
I wish I had a $1.00 for every response I deleted.....
"Decidedly Superior in a twisted pathetic way".....
Professional Member*
Suggest they upgrade the outdoor unit to 2 stage, at deep discount for your troubles.
Regular Guest
One of the operations managers called today and they are sending their go to guy out on Tues to do the load calc and duct diagnostics as well as run some other tests regarding air flow, fan speed, etc...Guy said that the stats from his readers (forget what he called them) this system is running perfectly in spec and that even the humidity level is good...Offered to change out thermostat with some other "top of the line" one that adjusts for humidity? even said that if after all this, he had no problem refunding me and pulling the system out...
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Oh and I am the one that insisted on a carrier...They typically suggest Lennox, Trane and or Rheem
Professional Member*
Fantastic, standing behind the work. Sounds like they'll put in a smaller pump if that's determined to be a good idea. And don't feel bad, their pain in this will make future work better, protecting future consumers.
There really is no such thing as an exact manual J. And a problem when performing a load calc after the fact is it's pretty hard to avoid bias of making the J fit the install.
See if you can get them to bring a blower door. If not, ask for the J analysis on both very loose and very tight homes so you have a range.
Brand isn't the cause of this problem. Carrier generally tends to be the technology leader (everybody's got communicating now). One notable exception I'm aware of, the Rheem mod was revolutionary (everybody's got modulating now).
Regular Guest
What is a blower door and why am I asking for it? I talked to them about square footage and actually a 2 tonay not be enough on super hit days as he indicated we were on the border and it would be best to be a litte too big than not big enough...Someone suggested 2 stage unit...What is the justification for asking for that? Also, someone mentioned my paying a pretty penny for what I got ...We paid $6000 and all other estimates for a Carrier system like this were higher...
Professional Member*
Hacks.
Theyve not done a blower door, so they're completely guessing infiltration, and no manual j, so guessing solar gain and thermal load. How do they know 2 ton is to small. That's a complete guess that anicdotal evidence suggests is incorrect. Your logging appears not to have any long cycles.
Hacks. Little too big is better is a hack comment. You really gonna have a coronary in the unlikely event the unit is little too small and the house backslides to 77 one day a year? I don't think so. If its 100, 77 will feel pretty good. Little to small one day a year is way better than way to big most of the time.
I've got a client with a 4000 sf rancher in Baltimore. 2 ton heat pump. Can't believe the comfort. House had a 4 ton.
Of they don't know what a blower door is, ask them if they know what a hack is.
Regular Guest
Hee! Hee! I imagine my Tues morning shall be amusing...Think I am going to have to print all of the suggestions and comments here so I don't get. Ur so freakin confused!
Professional Member*
Good luck. This is where you get value going with a reputable company, they trip over themselves to make things right. And you have plenty of information to avoid a brush off. Please don't forget to let us know how it goes.
Blower door - measured building leakage
Load calc. Including measured building leakage, or alternatively show load range assumptions from loose to very tight.
External static pressure - how well the equipment matches your duct work. Oversized to duct is colossal fail, smaller required.
Duct leakage - if ducts are leaking to or from outdoors, pressure imbalance brings in a LOT of hot wet air. This is worsened by high ESP.
And remember, you can usually improve comfort by improving the house. If the unit seems too small, a little air or duct sealing may well fix that. Throwing a bigger unit at a problem often causes more trouble than it cures as you are experiencing, and home repairs can make it worse rather than better.
Professional Member
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Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 09-22-2012 at 01:26 PM. Reason: non AOP member
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Cool_Air
This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.
You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.
Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
Regular Guest
Who is a non AOP member? I was the consumer only responding to questions asked by your posters...
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Look in JP's post. See the name in bold print "cool_air". Thats who he was talking to.
Regular Guest
Oh, OK...Never saw cool air's post...Thanks to everyone that has replied...It has been very helpful info topped with just enough sarcasm to make learning this more enjoyable in light of our situation...I will certainly provide an update after our meeting on Tuesday!
Regular Guest
Hey all...Sorry for not getting back out to you guys, but it has been crazy here...The company actually sent out another top tech and he went through the entire system, duct work and all (they didn't install ductwork) and he stated that everything was running perfectly and that the last adjustment they made on the air handler was a perfect adjustment and that this system was running perfectly. He did explain that the old air handler/coils had smaller coils and that my perception of humidity prior to their adjustment on the air handler could be due to the air running over larger coils. End result, they stated that if I still wasn't satisfied, they would pull the system and refund my money in full.
I really feel like this company went above and beyond and was super responsive. I did call another company because everyone (not just here, but other folks too) was saying I paid too much for this system. I called two more companies (that I hadn't called before) and got an estimate from each one with the EXACT same model numbers, etc and they were within $100-200 of what I paid. Needless to say, I just moved the thermostat to where I was comfortable and got over it needing to be on 72.
Thanks SO much for your input and explanations! I feel like I have learned a lot and can even better represent my clients in Real Estate! Great forum!
Professional Member*
just a thought, but i read in one of your ealier posts that you had brought in another thermostat that was reading higher temps. it's possible that your stat isn't reading right and is just a few degrees off. this would cause your system to shut off before it had actually reached the temp that you want. depending on what stat you have this can be adjusted in the program.
Regular Guest
We just had a fireplace remote that showed the room temperature...It wasn't actually a thermostat for the system...It seems that if I set it at 70, it cools and dehumidifies like my old system did at 72
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