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  1. #1
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    Metasys AHU Controllers

    I am working on a job with 2 NAE controllers communicating to multiple AHUs. There is an extreme amount of problems on this job. I have a few questions regarding the controls on the AHUs

    The controllers I am working with are AS-AHU101-0 controllers. It appears that I need to use HVAC pro software to look at the programming in these controllers. I was wondering what type of cable do I need to have to connect to these controllers directly?

    There is also a AS-RLY100-0 above this AHU controller with a Zone Bus jack on it. Would there be any reason to connect to that? If so what do I need to connect to it?

    I was trying to run HVAC Pro on the workstation with Metasys running, but it came back with a prompt claiming the "Pass Thru components haven't been installed on this computer". Is there a way I can do this? It would be alot easier to check programming from the workstation rather than going controller to controller.

    I was also wondering is there was some sort of JCI Metasys graphic package out there? This is due to only a few graphics were actually completed. There is a nice graphic for the Chiller Plant, but the customer doesn't have AHU graphics, Boiler Plant graphics, Or main site graphics. I went into the graphics editor, and there isn't very much in there in the way of graphics.


    Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    J. King

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    1) I use a B&B 232-485 convertor wired to the N2 port of the controller. The part # is 485SD9TB. If your laptop has no serial port, you will also need a usb to serial convertor.

    2) I don't think that is a zone bus connection. I think that is the molex connector for the factory supplied wiring harness. I could be wrong on this one though.

    3) The System Configuration Tools (SCT) weren't installed on the PC. There are software components that are loaded with the SCT tool that are required to perform any Passthru activities. Install the System Configuration Tools on the PC that needs to run any of the Configuration tools (HVAC Pro, GX9100, DX Commissioning, XTM Configurator, N2 Device Loader) in passthrough mode.

    4) I know there is an advanced graphics package available, but I believe that you will need an ADS to use them. My NAE experience is limited, so maybe somebody with more knowledge will chime in.

  3. #3
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    May 2006
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    665
    The controllers I am working with are AS-AHU101-0 controllers. It appears that I need to use HVAC pro software to look at the programming in these controllers. I was wondering what type of cable do I need to have to connect to these controllers directly?

    First you need the software HVACPRO, Second here is the link to the JCI tool for connection http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.co...eq=MM-CVT101.*

    You need to be careful, as this looks like a older AHU which means the current software (windows base) won't work. It needs to be done using the Dos software. I would like onsite and on the machine for the software.

    There is also a AS-RLY100-0 above this AHU controller with a Zone Bus jack on it. Would there be any reason to connect to that? If so what do I need to connect to it?

    The AS-RLY100-0 is a relay -> http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.co...q=AS-RLY100-0*

    I was trying to run HVAC Pro on the workstation with Metasys running, but it came back with a prompt claiming the "Pass Thru components haven't been installed on this computer". Is there a way I can do this? It would be alot easier to check programming from the workstation rather than going controller to controller.

    See repeaters #3

    I was also wondering is there was some sort of JCI Metasys graphic package out there? This is due to only a few graphics were actually completed. There is a nice graphic for the Chiller Plant, but the customer doesn't have AHU graphics, Boiler Plant graphics, Or main site graphics. I went into the graphics editor, and there isn't very much in there in the way of graphics.

    Yes there is the advance graphics and normal graphics. If you have advance graphics, you need Visio, Advanced Graphics Software and about 6 years to learn the stupid thing. If you have normal graphics, it's all in the machine and very simple. You need to check on this.

    Is the graphics on the ADS or in the NAE? If you open up the tree and look in the all items tab, open the ADS server and if you see all the graphics under hear, it's most likely you have advance graphics. If you look in the NAE, then it's normal graphics.




    Thanks![/QUOTE]

  4. #4
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    thanks for the replies.

    Integrator: So will that CVTPRO plug directly into the zone bus jack on the controller and communicate? I found some JCI tools from S2innovations and BB... Will they only work on the N2 bus side of things? If so do I really need to connect through zone bus?

    So running the most updated version of HVAC Pro will not show me everything in this AHU controller? How can I get the DOS version? Does anyone have a copy?

    I will have to check on the graphics thing. I know the one screen I was on had only about 10 items to choose from as far as graphics go. My company has purchased some graphics for the control system we install. Could I just pull different graphics out of that file to add into this system?

    Reaper: Would my Johnson Control local vendor be able to get that SCT software? Or should that software be a part of the recent metasys upgrade? If so I will have the customer get JCI back over to the job, and load the necessary tools.
    J. King

  5. #5
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    Reaper: Would my Johnson Control local vendor be able to get that SCT software? Or should that software be a part of the recent metasys upgrade? If so I will have the customer get JCI back over to the job, and load the necessary tools.[/QUOTE]

    Johnson restricts the SCT software to ABCS's. You might have to have the customer purchase the package from JCI directly. I actually have a copy of DOS configuration tools. I will try to find it and send it to you. If that AHU is DOS however, you will not be able to upload the controller. I would look around on the ADS and search for any files with the .ahc extension. If that controller is DOS, these will be the files for it if someone was nice enough to leave them there. I can't tell if that controller is DOS just by the picture though so it might be windows if you're lucky. I also wouldn't waste my time/money on the CVTPRO. It is a colossal piece of crap IMO. If zone bus access is a must have, try to find the older Cable Pro. They are still available but not too cheap. I use the B&B but I know a lot of people who use the S2 convertor and they love it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
    Reaper: Would my Johnson Control local vendor be able to get that SCT software? Or should that software be a part of the recent metasys upgrade? If so I will have the customer get JCI back over to the job, and load the necessary tools
    Johnson restricts the SCT software to ABCS's. You might have to have the customer purchase the package from JCI directly. I actually have a copy of DOS configuration tools. I will try to find it and send it to you. If that AHU is DOS however, you will not be able to upload the controller. I would look around on the ADS and search for any files with the .ahc extension. If that controller is DOS, these will be the files for it if someone was nice enough to leave them there. I can't tell if that controller is DOS just by the picture though so it might be windows if you're lucky. I also wouldn't waste my time/money on the CVTPRO. It is a colossal piece of crap IMO. If zone bus access is a must have, try to find the older Cable Pro. They are still available but not too cheap. I use the B&B but I know a lot of people who use the S2 convertor and they love it.
    I will have to go back and look at the tree again.. I do not recall seeing anything labeled ADS. How can I tell if the controllers are DOS or Windows? Just try and hook up with the latest version of HVAC pro? If the .ahc files do exist do I just load them into the HVAC Pro DOS program to view the program? Thanks
    J. King

  7. #7
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana
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    Look on the NAE UI and dig down into the tree and find the AHU controller.

    Look on the focus screen and see if there is any details of what version the AHU controller is.

    If that does not tell you much then you need to find a copy of HVACpro and connect to the AHU101 and run controller information and see what version it is.

    If it is DOS version then you will NOT be able to upload the controller or commission it.

    It will tell you that it needs the DOS version. If it does require the DOS version please post on here and I bet you can get someone to send it to you.

    You can connect to it either zone bus or N2 but zone bus is slow as !!!!.

    If you do get to a point were you can get into the controller when you exit commissioning on a AHU101 it will NOT come back online to the NAE right away. I have seen them take 30 / 45 minutes before they start communicating again. It is a problem inherent to the AHU101 controllers so don't panic.

    The best way to get it communicating right away is power cycle it after exiting it, but then you have to know if the customer can allow you to take that piece of equipment off for the short amount of time to let it check back in to the NAE and determine occupancy and then go get going again.


    As for SCT

    If the software was not purchased during the recent upgrade then it is not there for that reason.

    SCT is not required for a NAE to run, just a IE browser and Java revision.

    To run any of the field tools in the menu SCT will need to be installed.

    This is why you get the "passthru components needs to be installed" error.

    I seen someone mentioned ADS/ADX earlier. If it is only 1 NAE then i doubt there is an ADS/X there unless there is some kind of requirement for somethign such as extended data trending and logging or validation.... Another way you can tell if there is an ADS look at the screen and on the tree look above the NAE on the tree for ADS/ADX..


    If for some reason you do find an ADS onsite then SCT and field tools will be installed on that computer.. That is the computer were the ADS software is actually installed not just any computer. Try this type in http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/SCT and see if you get the JCI screen...It will look exactly like the screen you log into the NAE with...

    Can you tell me the customers name or email the name to me?
    UA Local 141

  8. #8
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    Can you describe the problems you are having with this job. We can assist you with these and or tell you were to start.
    UA Local 141

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by berg2666 View Post
    Look on the NAE UI and dig down into the tree and find the AHU controller.

    Look on the focus screen and see if there is any details of what version the AHU controller is.

    If that does not tell you much then you need to find a copy of HVACpro and connect to the AHU101 and run controller information and see what version it is.

    If it is DOS version then you will NOT be able to upload the controller or commission it.

    It will tell you that it needs the DOS version. If it does require the DOS version please post on here and I bet you can get someone to send it to you.

    You can connect to it either zone bus or N2 but zone bus is slow as !!!!.

    If you do get to a point were you can get into the controller when you exit commissioning on a AHU101 it will NOT come back online to the NAE right away. I have seen them take 30 / 45 minutes before they start communicating again. It is a problem inherent to the AHU101 controllers so don't panic.

    The best way to get it communicating right away is power cycle it after exiting it, but then you have to know if the customer can allow you to take that piece of equipment off for the short amount of time to let it check back in to the NAE and determine occupancy and then go get going again.


    As for SCT

    If the software was not purchased during the recent upgrade then it is not there for that reason.

    SCT is not required for a NAE to run, just a IE browser and Java revision.

    To run any of the field tools in the menu SCT will need to be installed.

    This is why you get the "passthru components needs to be installed" error.

    I seen someone mentioned ADS/ADX earlier. If it is only 1 NAE then i doubt there is an ADS/X there unless there is some kind of requirement for somethign such as extended data trending and logging or validation.... Another way you can tell if there is an ADS look at the screen and on the tree look above the NAE on the tree for ADS/ADX..


    If for some reason you do find an ADS onsite then SCT and field tools will be installed on that computer.. That is the computer were the ADS software is actually installed not just any computer. Try this type in http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/SCT and see if you get the JCI screen...It will look exactly like the screen you log into the NAE with...

    Can you tell me the customers name or email the name to me?
    There are 2 NAEs on this job... I am not sure about the ADS, but I will check on that today. That web URL for SCT you posted.. Do I enter it like you posted it or do I enter a IP address/SCT?

    If someone does have a DOS version of HVAC Pro I would like to have a copy of it. I will get more AHU information today when I am there.

    I will list some of the problems that I am having when I get home later as I know the list will be alot longer. Some of the problems are obvious, and are not related to the JCI system itself. Mostly I want to log into the AHU controller to understand what sequences the unit performs.

    The AHU controller has 3 zone sensors reporting to it, but I cannot locate them. I do not see these sensors hard wired to the inputs. Do this sensors communicate on this Zone Bus? If so some of them are not showing up on Metasys.
    J. King

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by apprentice3 View Post
    There are 2 NAEs on this job... I am not sure about the ADS, but I will check on that today. That web URL for SCT you posted.. Do I enter it like you posted it or do I enter a IP address/SCT?

    *****Yes you put the IP address in place of the XXX, but if you have only two NAE's then you probably do not have an ADS/X.*****

    If someone does have a DOS version of HVAC Pro I would like to have a copy of it. I will get more AHU information today when I am there.



    I will list some of the problems that I am having when I get home later as I know the list will be alot longer. Some of the problems are obvious, and are not related to the JCI system itself. Mostly I want to log into the AHU controller to understand what sequences the unit performs.

    The AHU controller has 3 zone sensors reporting to it, but I cannot locate them. I do not see these sensors hard wired to the inputs. Do this sensors communicate on this Zone Bus? If so some of them are not showing up on Metasys.
    *****If you look through the NAE there is probably some LCT logic were the tempera tures are shared and wrote to the AHU controller and that could be why there is not any hard wires to those input.*****

    *****If you can get a screen shot of the NAEs we can help you. Also ask the customer if they are willing to give you outside access. Highly doubtfull though.*****
    UA Local 141

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by berg2666 View Post
    *****If you look through the NAE there is probably some LCT logic were the tempera tures are shared and wrote to the AHU controller and that could be why there is not any hard wires to those input.*****

    *****If you can get a screen shot of the NAEs we can help you. Also ask the customer if they are willing to give you outside access. Highly doubtfull though.*****
    I asked the customer about outside access, but they said that JCI did something to there remote access. Maintenance doesn't even know the remote IP. So I assume it was never set up. I can get with there IT department, and make sure they have something like that. Is there anything in the NAEs that I need to do for remote access? Is there a way I can link both NAEs so that one static IP will take you to both?

    Some of the inputs on the AHU controllers are defective. What controller on the market replaces these old AHU controllers? What software is needed to set up the new controllers?
    J. King

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by apprentice3 View Post
    I asked the customer about outside access, but they said that JCI did something to there remote access. Maintenance doesn't even know the remote IP. So I assume it was never set up. I can get with there IT department, and make sure they have something like that. Is there anything in the NAEs that I need to do for remote access? Is there a way I can link both NAEs so that one static IP will take you to both?

    First thing first. Can you log into the NAE via the local PC? If so you have the IP address for that NAE. The NAE does not block any access, it's the IT department and firewalls. NAE's don't use windows remote access. They use the basic web port 80.

    one NAE is mostly setup as the site director to the other NAE. So if you log into the NAE, you should see the other one.

    If you don't know the IP address of the NAE - do a dump with a serial cable http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.co...01519.PDF?x=23 **Page 92

    Some of the inputs on the AHU controllers are defective. What controller on the market replaces these old AHU controllers? What software is needed to set up the new controllers?
    Do you have the files from the AHU or a copy of the program. to keep things simple, I would stay with a AHU. Nothing else in the ASC family has enought input\ouputs. Since this is the N2 product, you need HVACPRO software and the cablepro hardware.

  13. #13
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    opps some of my replies got typed into the quotes area - so here they are again

    First thing first. Can you log into the NAE via the local PC? If so you have the IP address for that NAE. The NAE does not block any access, it's the IT department and firewalls. NAE's don't use windows remote access. They use the basic web port 80.

    If you don't know the IP address of the NAE - do a dump with a serial cable http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.co...01519.PDF?x=23 **Page 92

    Do you have the files from the AHU or a copy of the program. to keep things simple, I would stay with a AHU. Nothing else in the ASC family has enought input\ouputs. Since this is the N2 product, you need HVACPRO software and the cablepro hardware.

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