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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
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    4,302
    I don't buy into the whole high SEER saving that much more on power bills. EER is about the same from 15 SEER and up. If you oversize the high SEER unit (most high SEER installs are oversized) your high rating just went out the window.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    16
    Thanks for input.

    I am almost ready to decide but would like for you to help me decide

    What would you install .I do plan on staying in this house next 10 yrs . I don't want to regard in a few years not purchasing the top of the line unit as i have read on forums ...

    1) Trane XR15 Gam5 3.5 tons with clean effects and UV light ,,10kw heat 16 seer with honeywell Pro 8000 stat
    2) Trane XB 14 ,4tttp 3.5 ton wth clean effect and no UV ,10kw heat ,16 seer with Tcon900ac Stat this proposal was higher then above
    3 Tops of line at Trane at 35% more then above XL201 with Tam8 4 ton , 10kw heat ,18 seer ,clean effects, NO uv light with top of line XL950 Stat ( looks like sweet stat )

    What is difference between a GAM and TAM Hyrerion ?

    Thanks your input in great

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,302
    I think you're oversized for your design conditions, have a load calculation done. be sure input numbers are ACCURATE, contractors tend to fudge inputs to get the result they like. Use the temperature you actually set your thermostat and the real design temp for your area. If you are oversized you're throwing away the extra SEER you're paying top dollar for. With high SEER (anything over 15) it's CRITICAL to make sure the ductwork can really deliver the required CFM. Very few systems are capable of getting all the needed airflow to get the rated SEER.

    Also keep in mind SEER is rated @ 82f outside/80f inside, EER is rated at 95f/80f. EER doesn't improve much once you go over 15 SEER, yet cost increases substantially.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,295
    Quote Originally Posted by captgene View Post
    Thanks for input.

    I am almost ready to decide but ...
    What would you install .I do plan on staying in this house next 10 yrs .
    3 Tops of line at Trane at 35% more then above XL201 with Tam8 4 ton , 10kw heat ,18 seer ,clean effects, NO uv light with top of line XL950 Stat ( looks like sweet stat )

    Thanks your input in great
    #3 - Work on reducing load and get a 3 ton.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,295
    Quote Originally Posted by captgene View Post
    I am almost ready to decide but would like for you to help me decide
    What would you install

    1 Trane XR15 Gam5 3.5 tons with clean effects and UV light ,,10kw heat 16 seer with honeywell Pro 8000 stat
    3 Tops of line at Trane at 35% more then above XL201 with Tam8 4 ton , 10kw heat ,18 seer ,clean effects, NO uv light with top of line XL950 Stat ( looks like sweet stat )

    Thanks your input in great
    How many windows & slidng glass doors face each direction?

    If total glass area is < 260 square feet and South & West facing windows are tinted (SHGC < 0.53, now or upgraded), t-stat set point is 76'F,
    then 3-ton _ XL20i would be an Excellent alternative.

    Windows within the envelope of a pool cage would be equivalent to tinted.

    What would I install?
    1st Priority -
    ______________ http://www.bhwtinc.com/WindowTint.html
    or similar
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 09-21-2012 at 08:35 PM. Reason: add SHGC
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    #3 - Work on reducing load and get a 3 ton.
    Dan here are my numbers Thanks .


    We currently have 3.5 ton and have to keep stat set at 76 to 78 ..76 to get in really cool night time 77 to 78

    Windows facing west is 36sq ft front door west facing is solid no glass
    Windows facing east is 32st
    windows facing South is 48 sq ft
    Window facing north are 16ft
    Sliding glass or french door facing east is 60st ft they are all under covers too

    All windows have wood blinds over them ,there is no direct sunlight coming inside the house ...Well maybe on the west window as sun is setting .(Awesome view) We do have one large room that has kitchen and living room appox 24ft x 30ft w 12ft with vaulted ceiling hardly any insulation in this part since roof line is ceiling height .... All ceiling 10ft height, accept the 3 small back bedrooms

    gb

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,302
    At night it will be cooler, you will be able to hit 76 even with a 2 ton. Use 78 as your indoor design temp.
    I'd do the 3 ton and if it's not cool enough on peak design days fix the house until it is. No point in spending top dollar on a high SEER unit only to install it into a leaky house. You're much better off buying a 3ton 14-15 SEER than a 18 SEER 4 ton unit. Use the difference in price to improve the house/reduce heat gain.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,295
    http://www.lcec.net/energysurvey/

    Current annual cooling cost might be $1,200 per year which is 'acting like' a 3.5 ton 10 SEER

    South and West glass area must have SHGC < 0.52
    ___3 ton estimate (somewhat of a W.A.G.)
    15-16 SEER ___ $770. savings would be in the $400 range if set-up and maintenance is appropriate.
    18 __SEER _____$690.

    Your LCEC ELECTRIC RATE is ~$0.11 kw-Hr

    Programmable t-stat set to 80'F during the day would save the $ difference between 16 and 18 SEER.

    I would be leaning towards a 3 ton ( # 1 in post # 41)
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 09-22-2012 at 07:14 AM. Reason: add t-stat
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,295
    Internal gain____ 2286
    Ceiling___R-30___ 5940
    Window Radiation_ 8596
    Window Conduction_ 3456 _ U =1
    Walls, 10ft.,R-5___ 5947
    Infiltration______ 3564

    Total _________ 29,789
    Btu/Hr Sensible

    Windows South and West with SHGC 0.52
    Ceiling: added 2,000 BTU/hr for cathedral in 720 square foot 'common area'.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    16
    I wish my electric bill was 1200.00 a yr My monthly bill is around 320.00...I do have hot tub 2ref one chest freezer

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,302
    In most manufactures lines there is a huge jump in price to get into the 2 stage/16 SEER equipment. Single speed tops out at 15 SEER for most manufacturers. At 11 cents per KWH the payback time to go from 15 to 16 SEER would take a decade. Undersizing adds a "real world" SEER point for every 1/2 ton you go down. 3 ton 15SEER = 4 ton 17SEER on energy bills. The only drawback is your A/C might not be able to hold setpoint on the afternoons that you are above design conditions. It's OK to be warm a few hours on an extremely hot afternoon in order to be more comfortable the other 98% of the cooling season. You won't die if it hits 80 inside on a 100+ degree afternoon

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,302
    With a $320 bill I'd look to see what is causing it. How much is your winter bill? Figure up how much your cooling portion is.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    With a $320 bill I'd look to see what is causing it. How much is your winter bill? Figure up how much your cooling portion is.
    During the months of Nov to May I use around 2200 Kwh during the other months when it hot its 2700 kwh. Our daily KWH usage is 86.0 .. This home has had high electric bills since we purchased it 2.5 yrs ago ,it was build in 2003 .. My old house not far from my current home was build in 2006 ,had big pool with water features and 3 water pumps and the bills were less...... Go figure.....

    With my current compressor running at 20.2 amp can this cause these high monthly bills. Max amps on label shows 19.9 ..So its running hard..

    My current AC tech told me " plan on replacing compressor soon " This is one of the reason I am looking to replace it

    thanks for your time..... T

    One of the contractor I was talking with suggested the xl20i 4 ton over 3 ton .... His thought was since most of the work will be done with 2 ton dual compression and its will run most of the time but when need hot or the demand calls for it the 4 ton will kick in. .....

    So it basically buying a 2 ton with 4 ton backup I guess ... The XL20I is around 35 percent more but if I took out the XL950 thermostat it was bring cost down to 25 %

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