Disconnect Condenser and Reconnect

[Baycienda]

We recently had a call from a general contractor wanting us to disconnect a condenser so a concrete company could poor new concrete and then go back and reconnect the system. It was an older system, which already opens up the possibility of claims that we harmed a system that was already failing just due to the age of the system. We can do an evaluation of the system based on pressure checks and such, but that is still no promise that the system won't fail for another reason.

The concrete company also has all sorts of heavy equipment that could potentially harm the system plus the system is sitting onsite disconnected, opening up the possibility of theft. How do you protect yourself from warranty issues and/or subcontractors "harming" the equipment on job sites?

It sucks because you want to express that you do a good job, but without warranty. You've got to protect yourself. Its like 6 cans of worms and waiting for one to be opened. Is there a way to state it or put it writing to protect myself.

[Baycienda]

This is not a bump...

We just started out this spring and this is a valid question that a new hvac company has. I would like to think that hvac talk isn't a politically based forum. I'd like to see some input. You guys have been great.

[jrmech]

create a work order, write down what you did, write down the make and model of the unit, write down where the unit is being placed while waiting for hock up (as per GC) and write down that the unit is old and replacement is recommended in the near future. Have them sign it, give them a copy and be done with it..there is nothing else you can do, or just don't take the job if you're going to lose sleep over it.

Pretty much write down everything and anything to cover your ass. Once the system is disconnected its not your problem, if some guy runs over it with a bulldozer that is on them.

[hearthman]

When you say "disconnected" do you mean the linesets have been cut or just the power? If the system has been opened and its sitting aside, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. If the lineset is intact then it is like any other system you work on, only you are not talking about uninstalling it then re-installing the same old system, which sounds like it is due for replacement. How old, what SEER and in what condition?
For the cost of what they are asking, that would go a long way towards equipment replacement.
As for leaving materials on site, you knows your risks, you takes ya' chances. Check with your insurance carrier about possibly carrying "builder's risk" insurance, which covers theft and vandalism.

Anybody can sue you anytime for any stupid thing they want to. Think about how you would protect yourself.

[gravity]

yup. and if you want you could say warranty covers only installation...ex; leak on new solder joint, or wire nut falls off. any other type of failure is T&M

[Baycienda]

Thank you for the responses. We know we need something in writing, but we are having a hard time wording it. This is about disconnecting refrigerant lines, high voltage, low voltage, having a landscaping company come in, do landscaping and I will come back in and reconnect it all for the contractor. And the contractor gives the homeowner the bill. The problem I have is I have no communication with the homeowner to tell them these things and the contractor moves quick! Please remember I just started out this spring and I am trying to cover the 6 cans of worms that come with doing something like this. My old boss didn't address these things and I felt it was a liability.

Hearthman - We do carry builders risk, but it covers equipment we purchase, not homeowners equipment that we disconnect and leave sitting.

This worries me because I can't control the situation.

[KB Cool]

Before disconnecting. Run the systems and see if their up to snuff!!!!That way you know!!!!

[Baycienda]

Yep, I agree with you, but we are talking about the original question. How do you state it?

[Baycienda]

I appreciate your responses. I understand put it in writing, but how do I convey that to the quick contractor, concrete guy, or landscaping guy who wants to move the condenser and that is not going to inform the customer? And I am still sitting on the 6 cans of worms because I am an owner who gives a ****.

[Joehvac25]

Sounds like you need to walk away before you lose your hair lol.


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[Baycienda]

Walking away is easy...I prefer to be professional and get the job done and do it correctly. I can do it and yes, I am a new business owner. I'm young. Its easy for an employee to sit there and say just do it and get it done. Do not forsake me for Jon Mark, I'm not. But what I have to do is cover my butt. Do I just take the money if the system pumps down and I cut the lines...or do I look at the big liability? This is my original question. You ask about the risk...this is why I'm asking the same question. How do you write it down? If you want to respond, please put some input on this.

[Joehvac25]

Just say no warranty and have them sign the bill.


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[Pete838]

"XYZ Air Conditioning will provide labor to disconnect , place in customer's designated storage area, and reconnect in original location existing condensing unit, Model/ser. # XXXXXX. Proposal covers labor only, and makes no guarantee of the operation or performance of existing equipment. Customer and contractor stipulate and agree that moving, handling, and opening an existing, older system can can precipitate other unforeseeable problems, and customer agrees to hold contractor harmless for additional repairs. Additional refrigerant, parts, and labor required to repair these unforeseeable problems will not be provided without additional authorization, and will be billed separately as a change order."

[gravity]

ABC will disconnect existing air conditioner. ABC will seal off refrigerant tubing and condenser. General Contractor is responsible for storage of unit while disconnected. ABC will re-locate unit to specified location. ABC will extend existing refrigerant tubing to new location and install a LLFD. ABC will perform evacuation and put system back into operation. ABC will give a 30 day warranty on work performed on system. ABC will give no warranty on any other part of equipment. If later repairs are needed they will be billed by T&M.

[Baycienda]

Thanks Pete! That's exactly what we were looking for! Believe it or not there are people out there having the same issues and thats why hvac talk is good and we need to keep it the same. Its not all about politics and who's the professional. Right? If its an old system and the homeowner wants to do landscaping I agree with you. It needs to be documented and written down. Stupid contractors are quick. Its a remodel world. Thank you.

[Baycienda]

Thank you Gravity and Pete!

I'm an Iowa boy with my little boat named Baycienda.

[truck12]

If you worry enough those six cans of worms will all open on their own.

[alamo1718]

A way to minimize risk would be to take the condenser home after you've disconnected it. I don't know about your insurance but I'm pretty sure mine covers equipment in the truck/van.
Also, business ownership is a constant balance of risk management and risk vs reward. Business ownership is inherently risky. I ask myself in instances like this, what's the worst that can happen and can I deal with it? Can I afford to return several times if I have bad problems? Does this customer/contractor represent possible future profit on other jobs or is he just using me? If left on site and stolen, can I get a new condenser that matches? If I reconnect it and it craps the bed, does the contractor understand that it may cost serious money? Just some food for thought.

Turning down work is sometimes the best way to protect your business and reputation. IMHO, what Pete wrote is spot on, if you choose to bid the work.

[mgenius33]

Bay, it's entering the slow season, and we need to collect $$$ when we can.
I don't think anyone would condemn you for doing this job. We've done it on a few occasions, without issue.
I do think Pete had a pretty good template for you to use.

There is risk in any job, but without risk, there is usually little reward. If the GC/Builder that's hiring you likes the way you work, it may prove to be a great working relationship.

[beenthere]

A way to minimize risk would be to take the condenser home after you've disconnected it. I don't know about your insurance but I'm pretty sure mine covers equipment in the truck/van.
Also, business ownership is a constant balance of risk management and risk vs reward. Business ownership is inherently risky. I ask myself in instances like this, what's the worst that can happen and can I deal with it? Can I afford to return several times if I have bad problems? Does this customer/contractor represent possible future profit on other jobs or is he just using me? If left on site and stolen, can I get a new condenser that matches? If I reconnect it and it craps the bed, does the contractor understand that it may cost serious money? Just some food for thought.

Turning down work is sometimes the best way to protect your business and reputation. IMHO, what Pete wrote is spot on, if you choose to bid the work.

Don't be a storage company, leave the condenser on the customers property. If it would fail to work 2 weeks after its re-installed, they could claim that you did something to it to make it fail while you had it at your shop.