To the ARP community in general

[mason]

According to the holy bible...the only time it is ok to kill is when God commands it.

If God commands us to kill...what is the difference between us and Muslims.

But it doesnt say though shalt not defend yourself and unfortunately even one well placed blow to the head can cause death. I'm giving jmac the benefit of the doubt that he is not literally using death as a first option but speaking to just a general preparedness to be ready for action when it's required.

[jmac00]

Don't get confused, if you break it down a non fear based preparation of oneself is taught peacefully in many martial arts. There are times inherently were a life must be took to preserve your own or ones family, it is not preferred, the difference is if you disarm someone who is trying to kill you, you now have a choice, don't kill them unless the only way to not do so os let yourself be killed. I do not advocate we become sheep for slaughter. If by chance you kill someone who is mentally deranged like the Colorado shooter, then you should still grieve for that persons family, they have lost a loved one and often times it is not their fault they have a mental defect.

If jmac is only staying prepared and is not operating out of fear or hate then there is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. Many highly trained martial artists are the last people who use their training against someone.

exactly. The LAST THING I WANT is to kill someone, for any reason. Actually, all my friends have the same basic mind set. I will run away like a little girl if necessary, but if Im cornered, in front of me is NOT the place to be. If I should have to defend myself or my loved ones Im am absolutely, positively certain I will need counseling. But make no mistake, I WILL defend myself and loved ones and my country.

I understand what Mason is saying. We are all on this planet for a short time. You can either go through life confused and angry and fighting everyone you meet. Or you can embrace the world around you, enjoy and learn from other people and cultures............just stay on your toes

[tedkidd]

Awesome post. I didn't read many of the responses, doubt there is much that can be added to that.

We all stray in perspective, and periodic "hard resets" effectively clear distractions and cobwebs.

Thats a nicely written hard reset. Thanks for making the effort.

[corny]

It is the one's beliving we "all need to get along" that are misguided.

Until and unless you have READ the koran, and understand what it SAYS, then you can't grasp that certain groups will NEVER get along with others that are different than them.

You ARE an infidel to the muslims. You will either bow to their religion, or they will kill you. They ALL belive this way. Not because I choose to belive that, but because their Koran SAYS that.

There will NEVER be peace on earth. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You have never studied nor read the quaran....

Your quaranic studies....not sure if quaranic is an actual word...... but your reading and studying of the q ran..... has been limited to verses stripped from the book and posted on someones web page......

[hurtinhvac]

A little unsettled by the "Arab Winter," Mason? You are probably wise to be so.

So we all cheered them on during the last Arab Spring when we thought they were yearning for democracy, only to have another uprising that is threatening to eclipse the first because they are offended by a cartoon or film that questions their prophet (read that: entirely intolerant of another person's point of view, beliefs or lack thereof).

Not hating the non-extreme muslim strikes me as a red herring in that nobody really has any issues with them. Just like we have no issues with Buddists, Hindus, Janists or Sikhs.

However, in considering the extremists; I can't think of another crowd in the twentieth or this young century that is so honestly brazen in their zeal to conquer all things, including lives, in tha name of mohammad. Except for the Nazis, of course - but that has been pretty credibly demonstrated to be economic in nature. Horrible, to be sure, but not really driven by religion so much but rather resources. As were Saddam Hussein's greedy atrocities and the Rawandan civil war. And these examples did not start out so blatant and forward with their intentions. Nor were they so broad in their targets as the muslim extremists (most of us are infidels).

Maybe this group is no different... They might not even really be muslims in as much as the christian crusaders might not have been christians. Regardless of what truly motivates them; they are a troubling bunch who appear to have taken full advantage of appeasement measures offered to date. And if Europe is any example, they are bent on occupying and then demanding. Everywhere. Even Western Kentucky.

Love your neighbor all you want - good for you. But cast and keep a weary eye on these rabble rousers.

FWIW...always FWIW.

[freemind]

You have never studied nor read the quaran....

Your quaranic studies....not sure if quaranic is an actual word...... but your reading and studying of the q ran..... has been limited to verses stripped from the book and posted on someones web page......

Step right up and tell me where i am wrong Corny.

You are quick to boast you don't belive I have read it, so enlighten the group how tolerant the muslims are. Quote the koran word for word, about their tolerance to other religions.

[2sac]

Here's my problem. Call me racist, whatever. We live in America. America was founded on Christian values. You want to come to America? Time to become American. Assimilation doesn't work. The "Rodney King" attitude our government has is going to be the death of us all.
Mason, I don't know where you live,(western ky is a big place) but make your way to a major metropolitan area sometime. You may see things differently than rainbows and lolipops. I'm not seeing too many of our muslim friends becoming American. Maybe taking advantage of our system... We should keep sending money to people who yell "Death to America"? The muslim community on a global basis is sucking upwards of 40% of welfare benefits. (I am not a supporter of welfare) Polygamus marriages? I guess that's OK in your christian world. Muslim leardership keeps their populous stupid and uniformed. That's what we need to fear. A bunch of f'ing morons who have no clue why they are doing what they're doing except Mohammed told them so.

The muslim community is smart. They have learned to take advantage of our system (as have many other "communities") The difference being, the poor and lazy want free handouts. The muslims want to kill us like a cancer. One cell at a time.

Did you see the video that caused all the ruckus? Worst piece of crap I've seen. But they're stupid enough to take it seriously. That says alot about a community.

[jmac00]

anyone else find it odd that the "extremist" are targeting U.S. Government facilities and not trying real hard to get the guys that made the movie?

I think the movie is just an excuse to attack U.S. personal

[mason]

I can't really commit a lot more time to the thread due to other responsibilities but I'll try to address the recent posts.

Freemind, we could spend a very long time taking excerpts from the bible and the Koran and turning each one into a positive or negative, it mostly depends on what the persons agenda is. Unfortunately there are those in the Muslim world who would use Islam as a vessel to carry there terror and violence not unlike other cases in history where Christianity was perverted for these purposes.

AStudent, I don't want to sound like I have all the answers. You bring up valid points, I don't look down on people who believe that any killing is wrong.

2sac, I went to an international boarding school for hs, there I met educated Muslims, Jews, buddhists, Christians, etc from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, many became friends. I've also lived in Louisville KY and Denver CO. The area of Louisville I lived in was mixed between white and black, in Denver the neighborhood included Arabic Muslims, israeli Jews, white Christians and more a lot of my prejudices were proved wrong there. The problem you speak of with handouts is a very different issue than the one of treating everyone with respect, I have strong opinions about what I believe is poorly placed spending by our government that only creates a continuation of the problem rather than a solution but that would be for another thread.

Hurtinhvac, you have some good topics there, should extremist Muslims be separated from educated hard working Muslims, I think so but many others don't. Anytime things get to a radical point everyone should be prepared for the possible outcomes, Iran nuke crisis possibly looming for example, but that doesn't mean I'll hold the door open for a white lady and not an Iranian man.

jmac00, I imagine with how stressed out those communities are from there own social issues and our presence in the region it makes us easy targets to lash out at.

Thank you hugh b, canyousayinsanity, AStudent, freemind, tool slinger, printer 2, jmac00, tedkidd, corny, hurtinhvac and 2sac for taking time to read, think and comment. I'm not going to be a frequent poster in the arp but I look forward to gleaning more tech knowledge from everyone at Hvac-talk.

[2sac]

Oh look! An American (with a muslim name)

Daoud Name Meaning

Muslim: from the personal name Dawud, Arabic form of David. In Islam, Dawud is a messenger of Allah, noted in particular as the father of the Prophet Suleiman.

arrested for trying to blow up a bar in my hometown.
http://news.yahoo.com/teen-charged-t...203440707.html

[bb]

Realize that the majority of Muslims are not committed to killing you but that your stance towards them will have influence , if you make a point to glare and sneer at the Muslim couple at the grocery and they start to form negative feelings towards Americans,

Late to this thread. There is only one kind of Muslim. Some may be more vocal than others (decapitations for example), but when push comes to shove, they will all fall in line with their kind.

If they would keep that kind of thinking in their own countries, maybe we could get along.

[royc]

Libya - 'Death To America'
A Trend Alert
By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
9-15-12


KINGSTON, NY -- Try to imagine more deluded reporting than this by America's Presstitute "free press." For 11 years Washington in pursuit of its rightful hegemony has been sending troops, bombers, jet fighters, helicopter gunships, drones, and assassination teams into seven Muslim countries. Two of the Muslim countries, Iraq and Libya, and perhaps more depending on how you see it, have been overthrown by Washington and left in chaos.

Washington's assaults on seven countries have blown up weddings, funerals, kids' soccer games, farm houses, hospitals, aid workers, schools, people walking along the streets, village elders, but the Muslims don't mind! They understand that the well-meaning Americans who love them and are committed to their human rights, are bringing them democracy and women's rights. The million or more dead, maimed, and displaced Muslims are a low price to be paid for liberation by Washington.

The Muslims understand that liberation has costs and were content with Washington's liberating violence until some idiot in California produced an anti-Islamic film. This film, and not Washington's predations, set the Muslim world alive with "hate America."

On the symbolic date of September 11, the US ambassador to Libya and some other Washington representatives were assassinated in Libya. According to the Presstitute media, the assassins did not kill the Americans because Washington destroyed their country and left them in chaos. The assassins killed the Americans because of an anti-Islamic film for which the murdered American representatives were not responsible.

This is the way Washington works and thinks. It is not Washington's slaughter of Muslims and control over their societies and political life that produces blowback. It is independent film-makers in California!

Deluded politicians in Washington, both Republicans and Democrats and, of course, the bought-and-paid-for "experts," brought these forceful rejections of America upon us all. Washington has not only attacked Muslim countries on the basis of concocted lies - weapons of mass destruction, al Qaeda connections, brutal dictators - but also destroyed the secular governments who held the Islamists in check, and prevented their attacks on US representatives and institutions.

In Egypt, long an American puppet states, the US Embassy was stormed and the US flag was torn apart. If only this was all. Washington could again purchase the Egyptian government, as it has since Anwar Sadat's assassination. But the ongoing news is that Anti-American protests are not only spreading across the Middle East but erupting throughout the world: Morocco, Sudan, Tunisia, Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Gaza, Bangladesh, Lebanon, London, and even into Israel.

The Obama administration is blaming al Qaeda, an Islamist group that the administration is currently supporting in its efforts to overthrow the secular Assad government in Syria and the group that the Obama administration used to overthrow the Libyan government, thus leaving a power vacuum in its place. Having destroyed the protection from Islamist attacks that secular Arab rulers provided Washington, Obama, in a show of force, has sent drones, aircraft carriers, Marines, and Tomahawk missile ships to Libya, raising the prospect that more schools and children's soccer games will be mistaken for jihadi encampments and blown up.

Attempting to politicize the turmoil, Presidential candidate Mitt Romney declared that the US needed him in the White House and as president he would provide "...the leadership that America respects and will keep us admired throughout the world."

What admiration is Romney talking about? Who are the admirers? In Egypt Muslims marching to the beat of "death to America," have not been deterred by police after three days of protests. CBS reports that "Police continue to fire tear gas in hopes it will deplete the strength of the demonstrators but they [the demonstrators] are proving relentless."

Kings Good, Dictators Bad! Unlike the Washington-supported Saudi royal family that absorbs most of their nation's oil income, Qaddafi allocated the oil money to Libyans. In Cynthia McKinney's excellent book, The Illegal War On Libya, Stephen Lendman writes that Qaddafi "wanted Libyans to share in the country's oil wealth, a notion foreign to America and other Western societies. Under his 1999 Decision No. 111, all Libyans received free healthcare, education, electricity, water, training, rehabilitation, housing assistance, disability, old-age benefits, interest-free state loans, as well as generous subsidies to study abroad, buy a new car, help when they marry, practically free gasoline, and more."

Why did such a relatively wealthy and egalitarian country need to be "liberated" by Washington and its NATO war criminal puppet state?

What was achieved by overthrowing a government that provided for its people in better ways than do Western governments for the people they govern?

The US is the new Rome, and Europe, the UK, Canada, Japan, and Australia are its tributary dominions along with the oil kingdoms.

In his book, Rubicon, Tom Holland describes what it is like to be a dominion of a powerful and ruthless military state:

"Prior to the cataclysms of B.C. 146, there had been some confusion as to the precise definition of 'freedom.' When the Romans claimed to be guaranteeing it, what did this mean? ... Roman and Greek interpretations of 'freedom' diverged. To the Romans ... freedom meant an opportunity for the city states to follow rules laid down by Roman commissioners."

This is the "freedom" that Washington imposes on the world. Washington is the übermensch. The rest of the world is Washington's playground. Ruling as Rome did, Washington installs puppets and relies on their obeisance.

In the end, empire destroys itself. Washington's hubris and arrogance is turning the world against America. Thanks to The Clintons, the Bushes, Cheney, Obama and the neoconservatives, America, instead of being loved or even respected, is hated with a rising passion. The widespread attacks on the imperial power's embassies are only the beginning.

As Gerald Celente had forecast, "The 1st Great War of the 21st Century" has begun.

[exreo]

This is my first thread here, although I have read many.

Many of you have given me very well informed information in the technical forums that has helped me become a better tech but from reading here many of these same people are gripped by fear and hate. This is not an indictment of character but rather a request that anyone that reads this suspend their normal knee jerk reaction and take a moment to consider how they view the world.

We are all brothers and sisters on this earth no matter your skin color, country of origin, political party or religious beliefs. Treat everyone as your family, did god not say we are all his children.

Know that many of the same people you fear and hate would have lived similar lives to yourself had they been given the same life as you and vice versa. Yes there are always outliers but they are just that.

Let go of hate and fear and embrace love and compassion. Not only is this the premise of Christianity(which many here claim to be) but it's the most influential change you could ever make in your life no matter what you believe or who you want to vote for. Love and compassion DO NOT make you weak, they make you strong and more importantly we all gain something from it.

If you are reacting negatively to this post than examine why, are you fearful of not looking masculine, are you fearful of looking weak. Be the change, help others change by proving there own fears and hate about you wrong.

I spent some time living in hate and fear after my divorce, after much reflection and effort I have learned to forgive and to help my ex with her new life by being a great father to our kids and to keep open clear and compassionate communication with her. At one point in time I was so tragically submerged in hating my wife(we weren't divorced yet) and her new boyfriend that it impacted every other area of my life including my kids. I first forgave and started loving myself again and then my ex.

We all make mistakes, we are all impacted and influenced by the lives we have lived so next time before you condemn someone consider what's influencing them and then consider what would help them most, hating them and what they are or trying to free them from the hate and fears that control their lives.

Forgive, love and be compassionate

All right I'm done : ). Feel free to comment or to relate any stories. If you want a discussion I'm sure it can be had.

Was Rodney King 55 one of your heros? Haha, remember when the speed limit used to be 55? Now it is going to be 85 in TX.