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  1. #27
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    You guys want to blame the 'other party' for this? To what end? You really want to know whose fault this is? Ours, all of us. Grow up, take responsibility, then we can move forward together. Or bicker and accomplish nothing.
    Wow... someone finally said it. The whole system, both parties regularly drop the ball. I think we rely far too mcuh on government and want them to blame for everything. But in the financial crisis in particular, plain simple greed caused this on both the financial sector and consumer side... end of story. People were making lots of money, getting big houses they couldn't afford, companies were taking gambles they could afford to loose. THe moeny just seemed too easy. I think we all know that easy money doesnt; exist. Easy money comes at either someone elses's expense or comes with huge risks, obvious or hidden.

    How's that a root cause.

    17 blocked motions on the house floor is just a nice footnote in the whole story, that will take a decade or more to finish unfolding.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    TEXAS
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    806
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolMech View Post
    so if Bush is No good Obama is No good who is gonna fix the USA??
    None of the current crop of politicians is willing to make the hard choices and pander to their own special interest groups to stay in power.

    Getting rid of the czars and all the useless bureaucracy that stifles the productivity and innovation would be a good start as well as having a government run By The People, not career shysters living the high life at the expense of the citizenry. Unfortunately those in power will never give it up willingly and we will be stuck with it until the pain becomes too great and the people decide enough is enough. Perhaps the govt. senses this time is near with their recent purchases of ammunition.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,702
    A call, letter, or email to your representative gets logged. It is like a glass of water in a barrel. Eventually those glasses add up, creating fair pressure.

    Social web is monitored. Pressure.

    We need to keep conversation about campaign finance reform moving.

    We need to take ability to buy influence OUT of the election process. Remove it as a competitive metric for obtaining office. Or we should not be surprised when our interests take a back seat, and protection of our wealth does not occur.

    A great deal of wealth was stolen from us; by banks through devaluation of our property, and by government when they bailed out the banks. It will be stolen again through the eventual inflation that will result. It is a wonderful way to harvest wealth from a population. Without pressure, this will continue and grow more prevalent.

    We need to come together and advocate for ourselves as a group. That doesn't happen is we fight amongst ourselves. Deviceveness is a tool used to keep us apart.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    2,137
    Sad part is last time the American people started to get fed up and vote these jerks out, they passed their dang retirement package in and gave themselves a pay raise. Nothing happened after that.

    I can't remembe the last time I voted for an incumbent for congress. #1 I don't want them to get comfortable, #2 I haven't seen one do what I consider to be their job.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,313
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    We need to come together and advocate for ourselves as a group. That doesn't happen if we fight amongst ourselves. Divisiveness is a tool used to keep us apart.

    Tedkidd,
    You have written three very good posts on this thread, thank you… especially the above.

    Bickering doesn’t solve anything. It empowers both sides.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,934
    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    None of the current crop of politicians is willing to make the hard choices and pander to their own special interest groups to stay in power.

    Getting rid of the czars and all the useless bureaucracy that stifles the productivity and innovation would be a good start as well as having a government run By The People, not career shysters living the high life at the expense of the citizenry. Unfortunately those in power will never give it up willingly and we will be stuck with it until the pain becomes too great and the people decide enough is enough. Perhaps the govt. senses this time is near with their recent purchases of ammunition.
    Given we only have two choices, and we WILL be accountable for what they do over the next years...

    Which party do you think will cause LESS damage... or even reverse a small amount of damage.

    Yeah, it is not an ideal situation... but damage WILL happen if we do not stop it.

    What the USA is missing is public involvement in the system.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,934
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    A call, letter, or email to your representative gets logged. It is like a glass of water in a barrel. Eventually those glasses add up, creating fair pressure.

    Social web is monitored. Pressure.

    We need to keep conversation about campaign finance reform moving.

    We need to take ability to buy influence OUT of the election process. Remove it as a competitive metric for obtaining office. Or we should not be surprised when our interests take a back seat, and protection of our wealth does not occur.

    A great deal of wealth was stolen from us; by banks through devaluation of our property, and by government when they bailed out the banks. It will be stolen again through the eventual inflation that will result. It is a wonderful way to harvest wealth from a population. Without pressure, this will continue and grow more prevalent.

    We need to come together and advocate for ourselves as a group. That doesn't happen is we fight amongst ourselves. Deviceveness is a tool used to keep us apart.
    Well, well, well! I see someone understands what goes on behind the scenes... must be that financial background I read about in another thread.

    Personally, I think TPTB and the media (maybe a conspiracy, maybe just a bunch of ego's run rampant) use a bunch of 'minor issues' to keep folks busy fussing... while they do what they intend behind the scenes. And the media seldom report it.

    Example:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1#post14186141

    Now if we look at the Declaration of Independence, we see the job of the govt is to GUARANTEE each citizen's rights. So why is the govt passing a law restricting a person's rights when it is in-convenient for the career of a govt person? Seems like hypocrisy to me.

    Looks like both parties voted this one in... a clear violation of Constitutional (first amendment) rights.
    Did the media raise a fuss? Of course not. They are bought and paid for by the polecats.
    Sad to say; even FOX, which is usually the bastion of common sense, did not fuss much.

    MeThinks we need to pro-actively search for what is going on... rather than simply listen to a newsie guy/gal that feels good... and take that as all we need to know.

    Folks; we have a choice: Either we get informed and involved... or soon the book 1984 might be more reality than we realize.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    806
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post

    Which party do you think will cause LESS damage... or even reverse a small amount of damage.
    The choice is obvious. Mitt is Republican Lite (definitely not a Conservative) and BHO is hard core leftist, knock us down to third world status, make as many depend upon the govt. as possible to keep the left in power in perpetuity.(sp)

    Even with Mitt in charge, it appears all the entitlements have tentacles spread far and wide and there will be a great wailing and knashing of teeth if freebies are reduced or actually have to work for their sustenance.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Which party do you think will cause LESS damage... or even reverse a small amount of damage.

    Yeah, it is not an ideal situation... but damage WILL happen if we do not stop it.

    What the USA is missing is public involvement in the system.
    This is not going to work if we just vote, then sit back. Instead of voting for the party that convinces you they'll do the least damage, the one with the most convincing lies, maybe the party to vote for is the one that we can have the most influence over. We need to lobby. Keep the discussion alive, and help it virally spread.

    I've been involve in some changes on the local level, I know this works. Politicians want guidance. If they don't hear from us they think we don't care. If we don't speak up, can they be called wrong?


    A call, letter, or email to your representative gets logged. It is like a glass of water in a barrel. Eventually those glasses add up, creating fair pressure.

    Social web is monitored. Pressure.

    We need to keep conversation about campaign finance reform moving.

    We need to take ability to buy influence OUT of the election process. Remove it as a competitive metric for obtaining office. Or we should not be surprised when our interests take a back seat, and protection of our wealth does not occur.

    A great deal of wealth was stolen from us; by banks through devaluation of our property, and by government when they bailed out the banks. It will be stolen again through the eventual inflation that will result. It is a wonderful way to harvest wealth from a population. Without pressure, this will continue and grow more prevalent.

    We need to come together and advocate for ourselves as a group. That doesn't happen is we fight amongst ourselves. Deviceveness is a tool used to keep us apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Well, well, well! I see someone understands what goes on behind the scenes...

    Looks like both parties voted this one in...

    Folks; we have a choice: Either we get informed and involved... or soon the book 1984 might be more reality than we realize.
    We have tremendous power if we build coalition behind some core issues, and avoid getting sidetracked by our differences (or the differences we are told to have).

    BTW, the more "big money" is allowed into the election process the less our voice will have influence. We NEED to stop this super-pac thing. Government will become corporatized if we don't do something, and once that's firmly in place we are simply sheep to be herded, sheared, and slaughtered.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,934
    This is my personal opinion:

    The damage done to the economy by the mortgage spike and crash will not go away soon... the country may not be clicking along at a good pace again until 2020. What I see is a LONG recession, with a SLOW recovery. Lots of ups and downs, all carefully masked by govt numbers... which the yardstick to calculate them changes every year (thus numbers like un-employment, GDP, debt, etc in reality mean NOTHING because the scale changes too often).

    Now during this long and slow recovery, times will be TUFF! The way I see it is: We have two choices:

    One: We keep a radically liberal force in power... thus guaranteeing more and more growth of entitlements (read that more taxes and less productivity, which means less jobs). We go deeper and deeper into a world where the govt literally runs everyone's lives. OR

    Two: We put in power a group that supports some form or another of performance based capitalism. This means everyone gets more or less a share of the pie; that is--what they work for. Hopefully along the way the govt will be SOOO BROKE, entitlements will shrink a bit (I wish a BIG bit... however I will take anything in the form of less govt I can get).

    Now which of these less than ideal scenarios would be better, and which would be worse?

    Again, the choice is yours in November.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
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    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    They only hold the house and not the senate. Harry Reid, senate majority leader, is able to block any meaningful legislation.

    BHO goes around the house by signing executive orders.
    Yeah but...

    Congress, specifically the House of Reps, by Constitutional law, MUST originate ALL spending at the federal level... that is the LAW. So in a nutshell: whomever controls the house (and it is easier if they control the senate also) is responsible for the economic climate of the country.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    A call, letter, or email to your representative gets logged. It is like a glass of water in a barrel. Eventually those glasses add up, creating fair pressure.

    Social web is monitored. Pressure.

    We need to keep conversation about campaign finance reform moving.

    We need to take ability to buy influence OUT of the election process. Remove it as a competitive metric for obtaining office. Or we should not be surprised when our interests take a back seat, and protection of our wealth does not occur.

    A great deal of wealth was stolen from us; by banks through devaluation of our property, and by government when they bailed out the banks. It will be stolen again through the eventual inflation that will result. It is a wonderful way to harvest wealth from a population. Without pressure, this will continue and grow more prevalent.

    We need to come together and advocate for ourselves as a group. That doesn't happen is we fight amongst ourselves. Deviceveness is a tool used to keep us apart.
    Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:41pm EDT

    (Reuters) - Stocks surged to multi-year highs on Thursday after the Federal Reserve announced an aggressive plan to stimulate the economy, encouraging investors to dive back into the market.

    The Dow and the S&P 500 both closed at their highest levels since December 2007, while the Nasdaq ended at the highest since November 2000.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8890AY20120913

    Investors will only put money back into the system when they see more on the table for them. If the Fed did not decide to make more money (decreasing the worth of what we have now) they would not invest in growing the economy. What a system.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,933
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:41pm EDT



    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8890AY20120913

    Investors will only put money back into the system when they see more on the table for them. If the Fed did not decide to make more money (decreasing the worth of what we have now) they would not invest in growing the economy. What a system.


    The stock market seems to march to their own beat. The market has been doing well all year, not just Today. Last Friday the jobs report was weak, so the market rallied figuring that would prompt the fed to step in. Had the report been strong, the market would of probably still rallied on that signalling a better economy. Another example of how the market sees things, if a company announces that it is laying off alot workers that is usually seen as a good thing as they appear to be trimming costs. The market does alot of counter intuitive things at times but after awhile will probably correct itself with a big crash. I think that will happen next spring. But one never knows for sure.

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