Buderus, System 2000, Weil-McClain Ultra
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  1. #1

    Question

    I have a 2500 sq. foot 2-story house, about 95 years old, with an ancient coal burner converted to gas. It was originally a gravity-fed hot water system.

    We're looking to replace this dead furnace with something newer, and in our research we've come up with the three boilers listed in the subject header:

    Buderus (with monitor)
    EK System 2000
    Weil-McClain Ultra

    I've heard from people who give Buderus an edge over System 2000, but the Weil-McClain Ultra may be just as energy-efficient as the others and less expensive since it's made here in the U.S.

    Anyone with any opinions or experience with this equipment?

  2. #2
    Hi Yew Nawker,
    We were recently faced with needing a new oil fired boiler, and after much research, questions on forums, 4 estimates, etc, we just had a System 2000 EK-1 installed this past Monday.

    You can read the long winded discussion about the search and see comments and a picture over at Oil Tech Talk here:
    http://www.oiltechtalk.com/discuss/v...e6794f3cf49c8c

    I'm amazed at how quiet it is, and while that certainly is a benefit, it's the drop in oil usage that I'm certain is to follow.

    By the way, it is American Made.

    Happy hunting!

    Howard

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    The Ultra comes with outdoor reset ability built into its control system, its not some thing you have to buy as an option.


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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    1,996
    EK's an oil boiler, not gas.

  5. #5
    Hi John,
    EK's are made for oil or natural gas.

    A quote from their web site:

    "SYSTEM 2000's low annual fuel consumption is what sets it apart from the competition. The system's fuel neutral design allows for either oil heat or natural gas to be used as an energy source for both residential and light commercial applications. SYSTEM 2000 provides multi-zone control of warm air, radiant heat, hydronic baseboard and domestic hot water as well as heating capabilities for pools or spas."

    Regards,
    Howard



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996
    I stand corrected. But it's not a modulating or condensing boiler.

  7. #7
    Hi John,
    Would the nooyawkah need a modulating or condensing boiler given his situation?

    What's the difference between mod-con and non-modcon?

    By the way, the EK-1 doesn't need outdoor controls, but I'd be hard pressed to explain why. Perhaps you know?

    Thanks!

    Howard

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MEDIA PA
    Posts
    1,369

    Buderus

    Get info on the Buderus GB condensing boiler it will do wonders in a old home with large radiators a little pricey but future buderus equipment will be friend to add on. WE just got back from the factory in Germany and the future looks great.Buderus sells more boiler then any other company and there is a reason for this quality

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    PA/DE area
    Posts
    1,535
    We LOVE the ULTRA and put alot in,The costs are going to lower to run on the Ultra because it ramps up and down. It fire like a V-8 when you need it or a WEEEDEATER when you need it all based on demand and outside temps.Indirect water heater a must.
    It's NOT the BRAND,it's the company that installs it!!!!!

  10. #10

    Smile Re: buderus, etc.

    Howard,

    Thanks for your thoughts and the link. It sounds like you're very happy with the EK unit, and the others on your linked forum had some good food-for-thought regarding longevity, maintenance and parts. There aren't too many people in our area (Tarrytown, Noo Yawk) who deal with System 2000, and that may be a factor in our decision.

    Btw, I liked your homesite, and I saw Billy Joel in concert at MSG just a few months ago. Great concert.

    We hired an energy guru to do some "blower door" biz in our house to find any leaks. It turns out that our home might as well be made of Swiss cheese, so we got a lotta work to do sealing up those places around windows, doors, attic, etc. to preserve any heat that any new furnace will generate.

    I strongly recommend the blower door thing for anyone looking to conserve heating fuel costs.

    Big, yes we *do* have large radiators, and the info I've seen on Buderus points me in that direction, so thanks for the feedback. I'll look into the GB unit. What experience do you have with the computer monitor thing?

    We're still waiting to get some numbers back from the HVAC guys who've cased our joint. If a Buderus unit is not much more than the EK, we'll go with it, but if the difference is big dinero, we may go for the EK.

    (I've actually seen Buderus units for sale on EBay)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,229

    Boiler Choice

    If it were in my house, it would be Buderus. Not familiar with Weil's ultra but experience with other W/Ms would steer me far away from it. As for the System 2000, I've worked on them for about 20 years & wouldn't have one if they gave it to me, especially in your application. They do work well in low water volume systems such as hydro-air but in high volume applications, no way, IMO.
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996
    If I were getting a gas boiler, I would get one designed for gas. Biasi and EK are 2 of only a few manufacturers that certifiy their oil boilers with a power flame gas burner. It's more common in large comerical boilers, but not residential. Howard is burning oil in his EK as 99% of the installs will be.

    The EK is a good boiler, but I passed on getting one because of the price. A steel boiler, basic Beckett gun, glass lined booster tank. Simple controls. What justifies the high price?

    I got a Burnham LE boiler (also low water volume) stainless steel Phase III indirect, Riello BF4 which has an air box, Tekmar 260 boiler control AND a stainless steel flex liner for my chimney for less then the price of the EK.

    I'm saving a lot a fuel also, but anything is gonna save fuel over an ancient coal conversion.

    You have to be carefull piping a gravity conversion. It's a large water volume system and long periods of cold water return will kill a non-condensing boiler. Mod/con boilers love cool return water and you'll get better comfort with out door controls. Why bring all that water up to 180 when 120 or 140 will do on a milder winter day? Problem is 100 return water will kill a natural draft steel or cast iron boiler.

    Howard's split probably uses 3/4 copper tubing and fin baseboard. Maybe 10-20 gals of water in the whole system.

    Much better to use a low mass boiler like an EK. The Ultra and the Buderus GB are better for the gravity conversion.

    Like GradyWhite said, it all depends on the application.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,631
    Originally posted by johnsp




    Howard's split probably uses 3/4 copper tubing and fin baseboard. Maybe 10-20 gals of water in the whole system.

    Much better to use a low mass boiler like an EK. The Ultra and the Buderus GB are better for the gravity conversion.

    Like GradyWhite said, it all depends on the application.

    The Ultra gas boilers hold about 2 gals of water, and the Ultra oil, depending on size hold between 15 to 21.5 gals of water.
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