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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    7,314
    Guys, please stop pushing the importance of superheat and subcooling. If everyone learns how ot do it right, my guys will be bored, lol. I just had to send a guy 300 miles to help another contractor who also believed superheat/subcooling didnt matter. My guy got paid to drive there, stay all week, eat out every night, and rive home. WHY?????? because the locla guy was screaming at the manufacturer that their equipment was a pos. the reality is that all of the refrigeration circuits were underchanrged, and one of the had a restriction. The local guy had identified that "charge was correct" on his startup sheets, but refused ot send us his readings.

    Please, for the sake of my guys, stop trying to get other to do things right!!!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    west burbs,il
    Posts
    145
    I will do that.. started a couple weeks ago for a day but been on vacation since then lol This week I'll be putting it to the test. To the guys who assume I'm some second rate tech who just slaps on gauges and walks away, I don't. I have a lot of pride in my work. I been behind a lot of seasoned techs well over my years of experience and have fixed their mistakes time and time again- As well as sub contractors that handle some of our clients when the job is too far to justify driving ( tech expense and fuel costs) Mind you I can see all you guys are great techs no doubts about that. I will take all your guys advice and take sc n sh readings more often.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    west burbs,il
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    145
    I'm interested to hear what you found was wrong, maybe I missed it but what was the problem you found if you can recall. I know I cant recall a lot of service calls myself lol

    ryan1088 posting in this thread

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    24,943
    Quote Originally Posted by flange View Post
    Guys, please stop pushing the importance of superheat and subcooling. If everyone learns how ot do it right, my guys will be bored, lol. I just had to send a guy 300 miles to help another contractor who also believed superheat/subcooling didnt matter. My guy got paid to drive there, stay all week, eat out every night, and rive home. WHY?????? because the locla guy was screaming at the manufacturer that their equipment was a pos. the reality is that all of the refrigeration circuits were underchanrged, and one of the had a restriction. The local guy had identified that "charge was correct" on his startup sheets, but refused ot send us his readings.

    Please, for the sake of my guys, stop trying to get other to do things right!!!
    Don't DO stuff like that.

    I almost spit my drink all over my screen.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto,Ontario Canada
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmech View Post
    SC and SH tell you a whole lot of what is going on with a system. How do you diagnose refrigerant related issues without them? Get a book called System Diagnostic and Troubleshooting Procedures and start reading.
    ya i bought myself the book its an easy read and there is a lot of important information there. but like everyone says reading something and actually doing it the system will make more sense and you will have less call backs
    Get er Done!

    Do what has to be done
    when it has to be done
    as well as it has to be done
    And doing it all the time.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-Mo
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    3,422
    Quote Originally Posted by canusayinsanity View Post
    I'm interested to hear what you found was wrong, maybe I missed it but what was the problem you found if you can recall. I know I cant recall a lot of service calls myself lol

    ryan1088 posting in this thread
    The expansion vavle wasn't feeding enough refrigerant. With that came along poor compressor cooling, oil return, and all that fun stuff that goes along with a starved evaporator. Then they would go boom. The freezestat trips came from the same starved evaporator issues. There's obviously an internal problem with the valve or clogged screen causing the problem.

    My point was that everyone that has worked on this prior in the past few years only looked at pressures and this problem eluded them many times. Once you see the whole picture with line temperatures and saturated temperatures, things get so much easier.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by canusayinsanity View Post
    I will do that.. started a couple weeks ago for a day but been on vacation since then lol This week I'll be putting it to the test. To the guys who assume I'm some second rate tech who just slaps on gauges and walks away, I don't. I have a lot of pride in my work. I been behind a lot of seasoned techs well over my years of experience and have fixed their mistakes time and time again- As well as sub contractors that handle some of our clients when the job is too far to justify driving ( tech expense and fuel costs) Mind you I can see all you guys are great techs no doubts about that. I will take all your guys advice and take sc n sh readings more often.
    i would be willing to bet those seasond techs are beer can cold guys too! But glad your hear asking, shows that you are wanting to know. It will take some time to get it down in your troubleshooting, let us know if you have any questions
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  8. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    16,998
    Quote Originally Posted by canusayinsanity View Post
    I will do that.. started a couple weeks ago for a day but been on vacation since then lol This week I'll be putting it to the test. To the guys who assume I'm some second rate tech who just slaps on gauges and walks away, I don't. I have a lot of pride in my work. I been behind a lot of seasoned techs well over my years of experience and have fixed their mistakes time and time again- As well as sub contractors that handle some of our clients when the job is too far to justify driving ( tech expense and fuel costs) Mind you I can see all you guys are great techs no doubts about that. I will take all your guys advice and take sc n sh readings more often.
    I wasn't thinking you were bad or lazy, I just wondered how you have been getting by without this vital info. Maybe you are a good guesser.

    If I were you, the next 30 time you put guages on a system, take out the thermometer and do the calculation.

    You will start to see more aspects of the system, and when you get used to using that info, the entire picture will become more clear to you.
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  9. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,006
    if you perform mostly residential work, then i can agree that most of the time, you don't need sh and sc values to fix it. most of the time 'dirty' describes the problem and 'cleaning' fixes it. however, on the ones that are cooling 'adequately', perhaps you might find an extra 1/4 to 1/2 ton of work that could be done. sh and sc don't fix everything, however, you could 'trim' the unit out and make it last another 10 years instead of crapping out in 3 years.

    you will be amazed at what you find. also, if you show the customer 2 pressures and 0 temperatures, and then i come in behind you and show 3 temperatures and 3 pressures and 3 calculations (compressor discharge superheat, liquid line subcooling and compressor suction superheat)...i would look like i knew way more than you did...even if i didn't!
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  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,314
    how many systems out there are overcharged, because a technician looked at suction presure, saw it was a bit low and added gas, never looking to see if the filter was dirty? I would be fifteen percent minimum.

    How many were charged correctly, but "lost charge" because every year soem guy comes around and does an "inspection" losing a few ounces or more every time he puts hoses on a machine? probably another ten or fifteen percent. the ones in the middle are anyones guess.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    54
    So it's you flange, and the guy who single handedly is depleting the ozone meanwhile giving the rest of us a bad name haha. I think you need to get some low loss gauges on your van and learn how to bleed high side to low side when removing them. Jk

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    west burbs,il
    Posts
    145
    I know in the future just like everyone here I'll have questions too..I'm already addicted to this site lol. I'm thick skinned so don't worry about the insults lol. I will be picking up that book mentioned earlier. I will put the sc nsh method to use more often.. I do commercial n commercial resi with 2% call back, I can't even remember the last. Does make me wonder what I might have missed. Thanks to all..

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas ,Texas
    Posts
    3,667
    This thread reminds me of a guy I do work for sometimes. He had some issues with his home unit and had a home warranty company contract. You know how it goes they make no money unless they sell something. After a new goodman air handler and a Lennox condenser it still isn't fixed after 16 trips from the contractors. He asked them what the SC and SH was and he said they only use a charging chart. I was always curious what the SC and SH was but they never would tell him I take it they didn't know. It probably would have cut the trips in half. I'm sure they were hoping for cooler weather because the new equipment wouldn't cool the house down like the old equipment would when it was charged up.

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