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Thread: LON

  1. #1
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    LON

    Hello,

    We have a Cummins Annunicator and Echelon iLON600 router. We spend several days trying to figure out why we couldn't get the iLON600 to communicate with the Annunicator via FT-10.

    It turns out that if we used twisted pair wire longer then 1ft it wouldn't work. Once we went back to 1ft, it communicated without any problems.

    Does this appear to be a termination problem. We are thinking that the resistance of the wire longer then 1ft changed the termination value of the FT-10 bus.

    Has anyone ever seen something like this?

    THanks

  2. #2
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    although 1ft should not make too much of a difference, it is good practice to always properly terminate an FT-10 bus no matter how long or short it is. Also, if the environment where the bus is ran has high noise induction sources, shielded cable may be a better choice. Either way, proper terminators do not hurt in any situation.

  3. #3
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    Hello,

    We placed a 50 ohm resistor at the end of the A&B bus and it caused the iLON600 to stop communicating with the annunicator.

    Not sure what's happening here!!

  4. #4
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    LON terminators are not simple resistors, they are a cap and resistor combo.
    get some from here:
    http://atkinsonelectronics.com/manuf...ist.asp?lt=lon third item down
    or
    http://loytec.com/en/sales/quote-request/lt-03-detail

    or make your own.

    you need one at each end of the bus for daisy chain setup.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by integrator View Post
    It turns out that if we used twisted pair wire longer then 1ft it wouldn't work. Once we went back to 1ft, it communicated without any problems.

    Does this appear to be a termination problem. We are thinking that the resistance of the wire longer then 1ft changed the termination value of the FT-10 bus.
    What type of wire are you using? Are you using Echelon rated wire? I'd guess you have the wrong wire type for one, or a bunch of noise is being induced from something nearby...
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by crab master View Post
    What type of wire are you using? Are you using Echelon rated wire? I'd guess you have the wrong wire type for one, or a bunch of noise is being induced from something nearby...
    Yes, we are using Echelon rated wire. The annunicator and iLON600 is on my work bench, nothing to create anytype of noise.

    Bacially we have the FT-10 of the Annunicator going into the FT-10 of the iLON600 and that's it. No other device is on this FT-10.

    THanks

  7. #7
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    Something is clearly not right. You should not be having these problems. When you had the problems was that with the resistors still in? The proper device(s) should be used, terminators, not resistors.

    I assume your using this, or something similar?

    http://www.cumminspower.com/www/comm.../na/s-1343.pdf
    http://www.cumminspower.com/www/comm.../na/s-1518.pdf

    I noticed that this requires DC voltage not AC. Are you using the right transformer? I'd be calling the manufacturer and getting support from them after checking and re-checking all their documentation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by crab master View Post
    Something is clearly not right. You should not be having these problems. When you had the problems was that with the resistors still in? The proper device(s) should be used, terminators, not resistors.

    --I guess that's our first issue, we are using a 52 ohm resistor. This is what Echelon told us to use? The cummins annunicator has a termination switch, once we turn this on, nothing works. Haven't got any feedback on the termination switch from Cummins.

    I assume your using this, or something similar?

    http://www.cumminspower.com/www/comm.../na/s-1343.pdf

    -- Yes we are using the 1343

    http://www.cumminspower.com/www/comm.../na/s-1518.pdf

    I noticed that this requires DC voltage not AC. Are you using the right transformer? I'd be calling the manufacturer and getting support from them after checking and re-checking all their documentation.
    -- We are using DC voltage.

    -- Something really strange is happening and I can't get any support from Echelon or Cummins. They're doing the typical figure pointing.

    Thanks for any troubleshooting ideas.

  9. #9
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    Do you have another iLon or even a Loytec LIP or NIC/some other manufacturers converter?
    Do you have another Lon ft10 device to put on the network to just test the ilon?

  10. #10
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    My boss said a general contractor told him he thought this integration was plug and play, so why is his iPad front end developer wanting $$$$ to interface to the HVAC? I told him to ask the general contractor what his definition of plug and play is, because my definition is plug it in and play around for a day or two before I can get it to work.

    kontrol out
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by crab master View Post
    Do you have another iLon or even a Loytec LIP or NIC/some other manufacturers converter?
    Yes we have a second iLON600 which does the same thing.

    Do you have another Lon ft10 device to put on the network to just test the ilon?
    Yes we used a LON stat without any problems.

    When we connect the Cummins annunicator straight to the USB FT-10 device and create a LonMaker program without the iLON600 we still have the same problem. Once we add in wire that is longer than 1 ft the communication stops.


    THanks

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by integrator View Post
    Yes we used a LON stat without any problems.

    When we connect the Cummins annunicator straight to the USB FT-10 device and create a LonMaker program without the iLON600 we still have the same problem. Once we add in wire that is longer than 1 ft the communication stops.


    THanks
    Do either of these devices have active biasing resistors? That is, pull-up and pull-down resistors to the the rail voltages? Add a small 12v DC power supply with 10k ohm resistors to the + and - voltages to the respective sides of the echelon bus. Thanks. Mike

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by integrator View Post
    Yes we used a LON stat without any problems.

    When we connect the Cummins annunicator straight to the USB FT-10 device and create a LonMaker program without the iLON600 we still have the same problem. Once we add in wire that is longer than 1 ft the communication stops.


    THanks
    We'll I think you have the answer then. I'd try one more LON device if you have it and then request and new module/further tech support from Cummins. I'd be pushing for a new module.

    I agree with Echelon on this one based on the information provided, it's a Cummin's problem. Let Cummin's know you tried other LON devices on the bus and they work fine.
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


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