ReplyHere's a closer view of the coil:
Regular Guest
Using the R410A in the existing evaporator coil would be great if it can work. Once I determine the model of coil (I only know it is a Rheem), I will post it to see what condenser it will handle. I agree that it is starting to sound like the contractor is "sales oriented" if they didn't do a more thorough evaluation to determine the proper equipment other than ask the approximate sq. footage. I will look for someone else.
In case it matters, here is the location on the 2nd Floor deck that is set up for the condenser. The piping is supposed to be behind the rectangular plate, and the electrical is in the upper box:
Regular Guest
Here's a closer view of the coil:
Professional Member*
Please post your findings after talking to the cities building permits and inspections department. I'm wondering if the contractor might be right about needing 410A. Reason being if the original work didn't get completed there would have been no inspection and the permit expired years ago.No inspection equals no record of the work being done. R22 dry shipped condensors can be installed legally as a component but not as a whole new system. If they have to take a permit out as installing a new system then it could get denied on inspection. The city inspectors will be able to tell you for sure one way or the other. Get it in writing if they say OK!
Professional Member*
I would bet what is there probably was inspected and passed under the original mechanical or hvac permit when the place was built. If you are worried about it, you could ask your contractor what they would think. They are the ones that know the inspectors and would likely know weather or not it would be an issue. Besides, if the inspector doesn't like the install, it should be up to the installer to make it right so that it passes.
I wouldn't think an inspector would care weather you went with R22 or R410a, as long as it was done correctly.
With that being said, though, all municipalities and installation contracts are different.
Originally Posted by martyinlincoln
Regular Guest
I'll be happy to pass along what I have found. I called the city inspector's office today, but they are in the field, and I'll try to catch them next week and let you know. Thank you to everyone. You have all been extremely helpful!
Professional Member*
Rheem recommends installing a TXV on that coil if you install a dry R22 unit.
I would get another bid- that coil base should be the same footprint as a new RCFL R410a coil. Should only be a few inches taller than that coil. That coil looks awfully tall for a 10 SEER.
I could swap that coil out in no time- I don't see what the big deal is.
Pull permit- you have to deal with CF-1R, CF-4R, CF-6R & a HERS Rater for duct leakage, TXV/charge verification. I don't think you are going to get away w/ a mismatched system (under 13 SEER) in California w/ permit.
Global Moderator
You sure there's a coil in there? That's the box of an RCFA/RCFL N coil which is a "13 SEER" coil but I wonder if that's just an empty coil box! I don't see the stub for the copper tubing nor the drains sticking out.
Professional Member*
You might be on to something there baldy
Professional Member*
It does look empty.
If it is a 13 SEER case w/ no coil - you might have just lucked out big time!
Give us width, depth & height of the case.
We used to get empty cases & install in tract homes years ago when a/c was an option on new home. Maybe you can still get them for 13 SEER? Haven't used one in years.
Regular Guest
Is this what you are looking for? The tech that was there indicated that everything was in place but the condenser. Of course, i have no idea what I'm looking at.
Professional Member*
I see rubber caps but no copper stubs and the PVC drain is not visible. It could all just be covered though, tough to tell
Regular Guest
Oh, lordy. Well it just keeps getting deeper. Unfortunately, the property is 1500 miles from me right now, so I can't verify if the coil is present or not. I will be really unhappy if that was not mentioned by the tech, because he said it was good to go. I will try to verify with the city what we can and can't do. Sounds like getting a permit to drop in a condenser opens a real can of worms. Who knew an AC ready condo would be so complicated?
I think our best-case would be if there is a coil in place that would be acceptable to charge with R410 and then drop in a new R410 condenser. Best-cases don't come along for me that often, though.
I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate the help and guidance.
Professional Member*
No...
Best case is that box is empty & you can slip a RCFL R410a coil in there, install 13 SEER R410a condenser & be compliant at minimal expense w/ no duct mods.
Regular Guest
I was able to obtain a snapshot of the plate on the evaporator coil from the HVAC company that initially looked at it. Here is what it says:
Model #RCBA-3765GH17BI; S/N T300403420; Mfd. 07/2004; Refrigerant 22; Design Pressure 300 PSI; “Piston size is indicated by the digits underscored in the Model Number” (65 is underscored); Rheem Manufacturing Co.; Air Conditioning Division, Fort Smith, AR; Made in USA.
The people at the HVAC company that gave me the quote that was so high are really a good bunch, but we can't afford what they proposed (replace everything with a complete new 3-ton R410 13SEER system. I spoke with them today, and they now say the issue isn't that the coil is an R22. They said they could put a TXV valve on and fill it with R410 without a problem, but that the problem is it is a 10SEER coil, and they can only get 13SEER condensers. They said if they pair a 10SEER coil with a 13SEER condenser, because it is somewhat humid in the area we are located (close to the beach in San Diego), this mismatch will cause the unit to run all the time and not remove the heat and humidity. I was under the impression that a 10SEER coil with a 13SEER condenser might be just the ticket for a climate like the beach area of San Diego that averages 75 degrees, but has more than average humidity. BTW: The condominium is 1,406 sf on three floors (LR, Kitchen, DR on first floor; Guest BR on second floor; Master BR on third floor).
Any thoughts on how we should proceed?
Global Moderator
Assuming that coil is really in there, tell them to put a RXCT-CHC R22 expansion valve kit on that coil. That makes it a MATCHED COIL for a 13AJA36 dry unit. That's the combo that gives you 12.70 SEER and a sensible heat ratio of .68 which leaves LOTS of latent capacity to control humidity. Now, Rheem did call for a physically larger coil so I wouldn't put a 410 TXV on it and go 410. Doing that required a RCBA48 and TXV to make a "3 ton" coil.
Are they the ones who put the RCBA coil in a RCFA coil box? Whomever did that does NOT impress me
Regular Guest
BaldLoonie,
Although I'm not sure I understand all of it, I really appreciate the information and will pass it along verbatim to make sure I get it right. It is unknown who put the coil in, but it is definitely there. Will it be a real disadvantage say in the next ten years to have an R-22 system? In your opinion, should we pay a little more now to get rid of all the R-22 and buy all new R-410 equipment or does this coil modification and purchase of a dry R-22 condenser make any sense at all or are we trying to be too tight with our dollars? Also, do you know how loud these condensers are? It needs to go on the second floor balcony just outside the guest bedroom doorway. Do you think the noise may be intolerable for those staying in the guest rooms?
Thanks for all of the great information.
Professional Member*
The only disadvantage will be if it develops a refrigerent leak and you have to add r22 because the price of it is climbing at a rapid pace and they will not be allowed to manufacture r22 after year 2020. I'm not to familiar with rheem units so I don't know about sound levels but I'm sure baldloonie will be able to enlighten you on that
Global Moderator
The Rheem cubes, either gas, aren't particularly quiet. You won't sit on the balcony with one running beside you. Probably won't be offensively noisy while you are inside.
Regular Guest
Okay, thanks for letting me know. I suppose no condenser will be pleasant to sit beside. My only concern would be if it is so loud that guest wouldn't be able to sleep, but in this climate, the A/C shouldn't need to be used a lot at night.
Thanks for all of your help. I would never have been able to navigate this without it.
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