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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ft.Worth,Tx
    Posts
    4,584
    If it is that bad, wonder what the evaporator coil looks like and for that matter all the ductwork, he will be breathing that for a long time.$$$$ Somebody needs to pay..
    "Everyday above ground, is a good day".
    "But everyday that you have made a difference in someones life, may insure you stay above ground a little longer".<aircooled>

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2,214
    Originally posted by aircooled53
    If it is that bad, wonder what the evaporator coil looks like and for that matter all the ductwork, he will be breathing that for a long time.$$$$ Somebody needs to pay..
    Yeah, we get that all the time in these new houses. "Why is there so much dust in here?". We are forbidden to say the words "duct cleaning" to the customers, because the builder refuses to pay for duct cleaning (if they did one, all of them would want it) and we sure as hell aren't paying for that, since it wasn't us that ran the furnace during the drywall phase.

    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    71
    I think that it would probably be best to wait to power or fuel furnace specifically after all phases of construction are complete except flooring.
    Jerry's Heating & A/C,LLC

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Rancho Cordova
    Posts
    39

    Confused

    If this was new construction, the HVAC contractor should never have wired it up for operation until ready for final inspection, or at least installed filters (hi effiency) before leaving the job site to prevent this from happening. I beleive the contractor needs to clean it for free and concider this a lesson learned. He also needs to talk to all the installers about this and make them clean the system if it happens again!! And if he is the one that left it this way he should kick his own a##.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2,214
    Originally posted by ts89
    If this was new construction, the HVAC contractor should never have wired it up for operation until ready for final inspection, or at least installed filters (hi effiency) before leaving the job site to prevent this from happening.
    Obviously you've never done new construction.

    I beleive the contractor needs to clean it for free and concider this a lesson learned. He also needs to talk to all the installers about this and make them clean the system if it happens again!! And if he is the one that left it this way he should kick his own a##.
    We are at the mercy of the builders (you know, the ones that pay the bill). If they call and insist we wire it up, then what choice have we got? We've repeatedly insisted they use construction heaters or used furnaces for temp heat, they refuse. Now what? If you want to do the entire development, then you have to do it THEIR way, they are paying the bill. They will also be paying the bill to clean/repair this because our warranty clearly files this under misuse/abuse.

    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90

    Sorry to dredge up an old thread....

    ...but it fits my situation only too well.

    My new home is under construction, with a Carrier Infinity 58MVC 96AFUE furnace. $$$$ ... as y'all know.

    The builder's folks started using the Infinity for construction heating as soon as they started working inside (ie, prior to drywall, flooring, trim work, cabinets, etc., etc.).

    They did NOT draw fresh air from the outside (as 'required' in the installation manual). They simply used the 'normal' register on the main level of a single-story house (furnace is in the basement).

    The first people to light it up "hot-wired" it, by sticking stripped ends of a black and a white wire into the female side of an extension cord, and plugging the extension cord into a construction outlet, at the street. They DID have a simple dial thermostat, in use.

    For the first week or more, my Skuttle inline air cleaner WAS inline. Somebody then decided that was a bad idea, and took the Skuttle offline, leaving the 58MVC to handle all the work.

    I brought this to the builder's attention. I think they horribly abused a very expensive unit.

    They've offered to:
    • thoroughly clean IT, and the ducts
    • pay for the extended (10yr) parts & labor warranty
    • "replace the unit if it fails (and I still own the house), after the expiration of the 10yr warranty."


    It seems they know they screwed up. A replacement, in the event of a "failure," doesn't make me sleep better at night. This may have caused lots of potential problems that fall short of a "failure." I'm really not interested in dealing with those issues, either.

    In a quick call to Carrier Customer Relations, their initial impression was that my warranty is now void (neglected to give them the serial number of the unit, though ).

    I believe the builder should replace the unit, prior to delivering the house (mid-to-late February). I think they screwed up ... and got caught.

    I'm trying to avoid getting the HVAC contractor in the middle of this, but -- from my few conversations with him -- he sounds like he's in MY court, on this one....

    Any opinions??

    I'd be grateful.....

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2,214
    Good luck with that. Every builder I ever did work for would tell you to go fly a kite. Check your paperwork, you probably can't even sue them. Most builders slip "binding arbitration" clauses in their stuff now, and guess who pays the arbitration fees?

    If they're willing to clean it and offer the 10 year warranty, then take it and get the builder's offer to replace it after that in writing.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    Quote Originally Posted by NBeener View Post
    ...but it fits my situation only too well.

    My new home is under construction, with a Carrier Infinity 58MVC 96AFUE furnace. $$$$ ... as y'all know.

    The builder's folks started using the Infinity for construction heating as soon as they started working inside (ie, prior to drywall, flooring, trim work, cabinets, etc., etc.).

    They did NOT draw fresh air from the outside (as 'required' in the installation manual). They simply used the 'normal' register on the main level of a single-story house (furnace is in the basement).

    The first people to light it up "hot-wired" it, by sticking stripped ends of a black and a white wire into the female side of an extension cord, and plugging the extension cord into a construction outlet, at the street. They DID have a simple dial thermostat, in use.

    For the first week or more, my Skuttle inline air cleaner WAS inline. Somebody then decided that was a bad idea, and took the Skuttle offline, leaving the 58MVC to handle all the work.

    I brought this to the builder's attention. I think they horribly abused a very expensive unit.

    They've offered to:
    • thoroughly clean IT, and the ducts
    • pay for the extended (10yr) parts & labor warranty
    • "replace the unit if it fails (and I still own the house), after the expiration of the 10yr warranty."


    It seems they know they screwed up. A replacement, in the event of a "failure," doesn't make me sleep better at night. This may have caused lots of potential problems that fall short of a "failure." I'm really not interested in dealing with those issues, either.

    In a quick call to Carrier Customer Relations, their initial impression was that my warranty is now void (neglected to give them the serial number of the unit, though ).

    I believe the builder should replace the unit, prior to delivering the house (mid-to-late February). I think they screwed up ... and got caught.

    I'm trying to avoid getting the HVAC contractor in the middle of this, but -- from my few conversations with him -- he sounds like he's in MY court, on this one....

    Any opinions??

    I'd be grateful.....
    Get whatever the builder has told you in writing. Make sure the document is written and signed by someone with the autority to do so. Try to get the builder-offered extended warranty underwritten by a third party.

    Someone with autority would be a site superintendent, not the salesperson that sold you the home.

    Document the conversation you had above with dates, times and names. Was there a witness?

    Their promises mean nothing if the builder "forgets" (and less if the builder goes under during their extended warranty period)... and you probably can't sue due to the binding arbitration clauses mentioned above. If you are dealing with a national builder, odds are there is some legal mumbo jumbo (not in your favor) buried in the paperwork.

    Keep in mind that you do not own the home until closing, and if the builder wants to, they can tell you to fly a kite and take their home away from you if you decide to get nasty.

    Unfortunately, residential HVAC contractors are at a loss in preventing the builder or the builders' subs from operating the HVAC equipment before occupancy.

    If the contractor doesn't do it, then that contractor will get no new work.

    Drywall, tile and paint contractors will not guarantee their work without heat, yet I have *never* witnessed one of those subs providing their own heat... they always use the furnace in the home in my experience.

    Drywall and wood dust will coat the insides of your ductwork, and if your "ductwork" is duct board or flex, it is impossible to clean... the dust also ruins motor bearings... the dust is conductive, and can take out furnace boards... the dust collects in blower wheels and the imbalance takes out the motor while reducing airflow... the dust collects on AC coils, returning to solid drywall once the dust gets wet.

    Yes, the only way to clean the dust out is to disassemble the furnace.

    Chemical outgassing from OSB board, carpeting and construction adhesives can do wonders to AC coils.

    Unfortunately, the homeowner gets stuck with the problems as it (the home) only has to last a year once you close and take posession.

    Keep in mind that furnace manufacturers void warranties if the equipment is used for temporary construction heat. You will never get the telltales out of the equipment. It is right there, in black and white, in the paperwork that should be with your equipment.

    Lots of luck.
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    90
    neophytes serendipity:

    I'm grateful for the helpful, thoughtful, and informative response!

    I (carelessly) created a second thread for this ... on the general resi hvac forum. I'd be grateful if you'd take a look at my last post ... here.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    111
    Work for a mostly new housing company and when the install crews are done in the house, meaning the house is just framed, they have the furnace operational on a temporary junk stat that we put on the wall beside the unit. If we dont leave that stat and unit operational then Union Gas wont unlock the gas meter because they need to have a appliace in the house to fire according to there codes before they unlock the meter. The water heater isnt usually there yet so thats not a option. We leave a 1 inch filter in the rack which is usually taken out due to being plugged by the time the installers return to due grills registers and the real stat after drywallin, flooring, trim etc. So the units generally get totally flithy but we never seem to run into any major problems with it. We all know it voids the warranty, the builders know this to since we always tell them, but they dont care, they just want heat so theres not much we can due about it. Its been this way for many years and other than me or other service tech having to go clean out insulation or plastic out of the blower once in a while because it causes vibration none of the homeowners seem to know about it. Since we never meet the homeowners there's never any question's asked. I dont agree with it wouldnt want my new furnace being used in this way but at the sametime its been this way for so long im not about to say anythin. I gotta say im kinda looking forward to what the future holds for the furnace's that are used like this.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    32
    Im sure it probably needs a new coil if that ran during the summer the condensation will make that dust into mud and harden and there is no getting it out of the middle of the coil.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Winter Springs, Fl
    Posts
    1,755
    Quote Originally Posted by neophytes serendipity View Post



    Chemical outgassing from OSB board, carpeting and construction adhesives can do wonders to AC coils.
    Yeah and pretty much everthing else used in the construction of the house too.

    NBeener, google the words "formicary corrosion". It is a proven fact that these things can cause microscopic pits/ leaks in the evap coils after only a few months to a few years. But besides that the drywall dust is the real killer of almost anything mechanical. Motors, switches, circuit cards, etc... I would be very pissed off about this if it were mine. Good luck getting the builder to give you any tangible compensation other than promises. I would even consider quietly getting a lawyer involved just in case it got ugly.
    If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.

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