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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,387

    R410A, HFCs and the law.. what a fuster cluck.. Mainstream Engineering + US Gov't

    I can't blame why technicians' knowledge on this is divided. Because the sources are divided.

    What a fuster cluck.

    If I procure 410A no questions asked and DIY it, did I run foul with the environment police?

    EPA approved certification agency claims its more or less the same as R22.

    The EPA says you're fine.

    Can we vent R410A into the air intentionally?

    They both say no...

    The same approval agency claims EPA 609 is not required to work on MVAC unless it is for "consideration" meaning you're getting compensated to do the work. Seeing one of them don't really know what they're talking about... I have no idea if this is correct. From what EPA's site says, for pay/not for pay is not mentioned...



    Mainstream Engineering, which operates a certification service d/b/a "EPAtest.com". and it claims one must be certified to purchase and handle R410A.

    Mainstream Engineering
    http://www.epatest.com/R410A/manual/manual.jsp(Accessed June 8, 2012)
    Q:Are you required to have a license or to be certified to handle and purchase R-410A?

    A: You are required to have an EPA Section 608 Type II or Universal certification license.


    EPA division of the United States Government.....
    http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phas...ctors_faq.html (accessed June 8, 2012)

    Q: Are there any restrictions on the purchase of hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerants?

    A: HFCs are not ozone-depleting substances, however they have high global warming potentials (GWPs). At this time the purchase of HFC refrigerants is not restricted. (For example, there is no technician certification requirement for those that purchase HFC refrigerants, such as R-410A or R-134a.)


    Q: Is EPA technician certification required to service R-410A systems?

    A: No, at this time EPA technician certification (i.e., EPA Section 608 certification) is not required in order to service R-410A systems or other stationary refrigeration and air conditioning systems containing HFCs.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,840
    Not much info in your profile.

    Are you an HVAC technician?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,387
    This isn't a DIY post... if that is your concern. I was just venting the frustration with the non-sense surrounding this matter.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,840
    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    This isn't a DIY post... if that is your concern. I was just venting the frustration with the non-sense surrounding this matter.

    I was not thinking DIY. I WAS thinking that you make a lot of posts, and you are a reasonably intelligent guy, but we know very little about you, and your profile does not help.

    I'll ask again:

    Are you an HVAC technician?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,901
    Twilly for 29.95 he can be
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,840
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilly View Post
    Twilly for 29.95 he can be

    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Paper Street Soap Company
    Posts
    2,304
    R410 A is a joke. It's a knee jerk response to capricious environmental regulations.

    Ill post a pic tomorrow of a ton for ton package unit change out that proves my point.

    I don't expect it to be round for very long.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    352
    I heard somewhere that 410A is an interim replacement. Is this true?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,840
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I was not thinking DIY. I WAS thinking that you make a lot of posts, and you are a reasonably intelligent guy, but we know very little about you, and your profile does not help.

    I'll ask again:

    Are you an HVAC technician?
    Hello.......?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northern NV
    Posts
    154
    Hey, it's the Feds so what did you expect, Logic?

    134a and 410a are scheduled to go bye-bye in the near future. R1234yf is one of the replacements and is scheduled to be used in some of GMC's 2013 vehicles. This new refrigerant is low GWP and slightly flammable. I expect that (finally) they will update the EPA test to come out of the dark ages of reciting old dates for phase outs that have long been history.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,840
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I was not thinking DIY. I WAS thinking that you make a lot of posts, and you are a reasonably intelligent guy, but we know very little about you, and your profile does not help.

    I'll ask again:

    ICanHas:

    Are you an HVAC technician?
    What say you?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    winnipeg
    Posts
    2
    In canada you have to be certified in the trade to buy most refrigerants asside from red tec garbage from the auto industry, I am supprised on the comments that were posted here!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Barrie Ontario
    Posts
    318
    Quote Originally Posted by T-expansion View Post
    In canada you have to be certified in the trade to buy most refrigerants asside from red tec garbage from the auto industry, I am supprised on the comments that were posted here!
    In Ontario all you need is an odp card to buy refrigerants no trade cert required

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