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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Beatrice, NE
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    2,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I would like to see how it takes your insurance co three times the premium to operate in the black now. I doubt the cause is lawsuits or salaries. Do you realize every single one of their costs would have to triple to legitimize that increase?

    As for govt making money, that isn’t their purpose. But what comes to mind is the cost difference between our military and say Blackwater. Private enterprise costs way more. How about police, fire and schools. Would they be cheaper if privatized?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Our private insurance and Medicare will fund endlessly to extend someone's life in their end days. I wonder how Canada's system works when pumping money down that black hole?

    We show no compassion for the costs insurance companies bear, nor do we care if they are paying $20 for a band-aid. I wonder if we would care if it was our tax dollars being spent on gouging hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.
    Either I can't read this AM or your on both sides of the fence. In one post you don't understand why insurance companies rates increased by 2-3 times and on the other you say we need to feel compassion for all the cost insurance companies bear.

    Insurance companies are some of the richest companies in this country. Look at the top of corprate conglomerants and you will find insurance companies own the whole mess. Around here insurance co's build more new buildings to occupy than any other single entity. So I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I deny them the right to charge what the market will bear, even though I don't like it when premiums raise. If I could raise my rates by 2-3 times I would, but I know that my business would suffer because of the competition that is willing to undercut pricing even if it means they have a lose to do it. Insurance Co's, on the other hand, all seem to work together as when one raises the others seem to follow.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,378
    Quote Originally Posted by kls-ccc View Post
    Either I can't read this AM or you’re on both sides of the fence. In one post you don't understand why insurance company’s rates increased by 2-3 times and on the other you say we need to feel compassion for all the cost insurance companies bear.
    I do look at both sides of the fence and have my questions.

    I asked why rates rose 200 -300% in a few years. It can’t be because of the hospitals suddenly going crazy with their fictitious billing practices or they are suddenly paying through the nose on lawsuits. Also, I read the letter from Blue Cross outlining the changes and they said essentially there would be some pre-existing conditions that they would now cover as a result of Obamacare. None applied to me. But, most of their corporate policies already cover pre-existing conditions. And only a few (mostly children) would be covered. So where is the additional expense on their part to constitute a 300% rise in rates in such a short amount of time?

    On the other hand I can’t understand why insurance companies roll over and pay for the $20 band-aids. I think they know the corporations are so entrenched in providing health insurance to their employees that they have them by the short hairs. They have to buy their insurance. So they give corporations super low rates and gouge the crap out of any single person/family.

    Somehow the hospitals, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies are in bed together to screw us and are immune from being stopped. They spin their crap on Fox News and disable the Republicans from going after them or even suggesting a real fix. Torte Reform will not stop the layers of corruption and gouging that is now in place. If Fox News or CNN suggests it, it is not a real fix.

    We should be able to pity the insurance companies and attack them at the same time. If that is riding both sides of the fence, so be it.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    21,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I do look at both sides of the fence and have my questions.

    I asked why rates rose 200 -300% in a few years. It can’t be because of the hospitals suddenly going crazy with their fictitious billing practices or they are suddenly paying through the nose on lawsuits. Also, I read the letter from Blue Cross outlining the changes and they said essentially there would be some pre-existing conditions that they would now cover as a result of Obamacare. None applied to me. But, most of their corporate policies already cover pre-existing conditions. And only a few (mostly children) would be covered. So where is the additional expense on their part to constitute a 300% rise in rates in such a short amount of time?

    On the other hand I can’t understand why insurance companies roll over and pay for the $20 band-aids. I think they know the corporations are so entrenched in providing health insurance to their employees that they have them by the short hairs. They have to buy their insurance. So they give corporations super low rates and gouge the crap out of any single person/family.

    Somehow the hospitals, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies are in bed together to screw us and are immune from being stopped. They spin their crap on Fox News and disable the Republicans from going after them or even suggesting a real fix. Torte Reform will not stop the layers of corruption and gouging that is now in place. If Fox News or CNN suggests it, it is not a real fix.

    We should be able to pity the insurance companies and attack them at the same time. If that is riding both sides of the fence, so be it.
    Above, I have highlighted 3 paragraphs, which seem to me to suggest three thought patterns (all related). I will address them separately first, then as a group:

    Insurance companies, like any other business, do not question practices when their customers (both us paying the rates, as well as the hospitals charging the prices) do not. What galls me is: A retail customer at the hospital or doc's office gets charged full price. An insurance co gets a HUGE discount. So is the cost + a reasonable profit of the procedure the full price, or is it the discounted price? Which one is it? If it is the full price, then one would say the ins co's are loosing at the hospitals... however if it is only the discounted price, then every person who is being billed the full price is being gouged.

    Yes, I agree the entire medical industry is greedy. Yet do we as consumers do anything about it? Remember that in a free enterprise system; the market-place determines the price... What that means is: SHOP IT. Now do we indeed shop medical procedures, or do we just go and expect the ins to pay for it? Perhaps some 'thriftyness' on the part of consumers would send a message? But then... I am not really paying for it, the ins co is... so why bother. BUT: my rates went up... why did that happen? Folks, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out this one.

    Riding both sides of the fence might feel like it glorifies my thinking process... however it does not. Riding both sides only confuses the issue(s) more... and greed functions best in confusion (lack of accountability due to the confusion--something liberal polecats exploit IMO). One side or the other is the better way... so which one is it?

    Observations: IMO the problem is lack of consumer involvement. Back to my example in previous posts:
    Lets say I am the bread-winner of a 3 person family, and my spouse stays home... Lets say (I really do not know), that full coverage costs $1000/mos (and I doubt that would include really GOOD eye and dental). GA knows where to get M/C (major/catastrophic only) for half that; if you meet the qualifications and are accepted into a PRIVATE group that is exempt from govt regulations. Oh, you say: but it will not cover things... Lets think about this: If I have full coverage, I pay $12,000/yr. If I have M/C only, I pay $6,000. Can I cover common colds, eye glasses, minor dentistry, etc from $6000 per year, if I have a thrifty spouse? The answer is probably YES with some left over. However there is one missing ingredient: The market-place. If the eye docs, the dentists, the GP docs, etc... all KNEW they were in competition (both price and QUALITY OF SERVICE), then competition would set in QUICKLY... always does. If you do not believe me, just look at the folks who under-cut your HVAC bids and GET THE SALE, instead of you... competition DOES work.

    Conclusion: The LACK OF CONSUMER involvement (thrifty shopping in a competitive marketplace) is the problem... yet having the govt pay everything will only promote even less consumer involvement.

    Ga's observation: Anyone ever wonder why ALL govt programs seem to NOT have open market competitiveness? The reason is simple: The polecats do NOT want competition. Open markets are not a result of govts selling the idea THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU. And after all; govts are about power and control, they are NOT about service. (Show me a govt program that works better and cheaper than its equivalent in the private sector).

    Rebuttals anyone?
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  4. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,026
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Above, I have highlighted 3 paragraphs, which seem to me to suggest three thought patterns (all related). I will address them separately first, then as a group:

    Insurance companies, like any other business, do not question practices when their customers (both us paying the rates, as well as the hospitals charging the prices) do not. What galls me is: A retail customer at the hospital or doc's office gets charged full price. An insurance co gets a HUGE discount. So is the cost + a reasonable profit of the procedure the full price, or is it the discounted price? Which one is it? If it is the full price, then one would say the ins co's are loosing at the hospitals... however if it is only the discounted price, then every person who is being billed the full price is being gouged.

    Yes, I agree the entire medical industry is greedy. Yet do we as consumers do anything about it? Remember that in a free enterprise system; the market-place determines the price... What that means is: SHOP IT. Now do we indeed shop medical procedures, or do we just go and expect the ins to pay for it? Perhaps some 'thriftyness' on the part of consumers would send a message? But then... I am not really paying for it, the ins co is... so why bother. BUT: my rates went up... why did that happen? Folks, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out this one.

    Riding both sides of the fence might feel like it glorifies my thinking process... however it does not. Riding both sides only confuses the issue(s) more... and greed functions best in confusion (lack of accountability due to the confusion--something liberal polecats exploit IMO). One side or the other is the better way... so which one is it?

    Observations: IMO the problem is lack of consumer involvement. Back to my example in previous posts:
    Lets say I am the bread-winner of a 3 person family, and my spouse stays home... Lets say (I really do not know), that full coverage costs $1000/mos (and I doubt that would include really GOOD eye and dental). GA knows where to get M/C (major/catastrophic only) for half that; if you meet the qualifications and are accepted into a PRIVATE group that is exempt from govt regulations. Oh, you say: but it will not cover things... Lets think about this: If I have full coverage, I pay $12,000/yr. If I have M/C only, I pay $6,000. Can I cover common colds, eye glasses, minor dentistry, etc from $6000 per year, if I have a thrifty spouse? The answer is probably YES with some left over. However there is one missing ingredient: The market-place. If the eye docs, the dentists, the GP docs, etc... all KNEW they were in competition (both price and QUALITY OF SERVICE), then competition would set in QUICKLY... always does. If you do not believe me, just look at the folks who under-cut your HVAC bids and GET THE SALE, instead of you... competition DOES work.

    Conclusion: The LACK OF CONSUMER involvement (thrifty shopping in a competitive marketplace) is the problem... yet having the govt pay everything will only promote even less consumer involvement.

    Ga's observation: Anyone ever wonder why ALL govt programs seem to NOT have open market competitiveness? The reason is simple: The polecats do NOT want competition. Open markets are not a result of govts selling the idea THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU. And after all; govts are about power and control, they are NOT about service. (Show me a govt program that works better and cheaper than its equivalent in the private sector).

    Rebuttals anyone?

    The whole world is going socialist. Capitalists concepts are proven superior, but people are idiots and choose socialism without fail. We are screwed.
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  5. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
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    1,088
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    IDK? Romney is a business man. He KNOWS THE SYSTEM. He turned the the Olympics around from being in the red to being in the black.

    The man DOES HAVE A HISTORY OF MAKING BUSINESS WORK.

    Right now, this country needs a business man, not an amateur community organizer.

    Now back to health care: 5 years ago I was paying $250/month for health care. That included everything except eyes and teeth. ( I barter my dental work with my dentist) after ObamaCare got passed my insurance went to $628/month.

    I do have one small challenge for you: Find ANY government run entity that is MAKING money (excluding the IRS)
    Try the treasury. Isn't that where they make our money?!

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Because I live in a state that has enacted reforms that actually do reduce the cost of health care, I've been able to purchase very good catastrophic medical insurance, in the form of a high($3500) deductible HSA policy. I pay for my own minor medical costs, and prescriptions.
    For a small annual fee, I have a membership in a "wellness" program with private urgent care network that gives me great discounts on doctors visits, prescriptions, etc., and at a local physician owned hospital.
    As a 44 year old man in good health, I am paying less than $120 a month for my medical insurance. My employer gives me considerably more than that a month to use for insurance and health related costs, so I use the extra for short term disability, and other insurance in case I'm injured off the job.

    Many states don't allow the existence of high deductible HSA insurance policies, private "urgent care" facilities and networks, or private physician owned "for profit" hospitals, and most states have not managed to work through any form of tort reform, because the process is under the complete control of the very lawyers that would be financially harmed by it.

    I've already been informed that my type of health insurance policy will no longer be possible very soon due to Obamacare rules, and that my health insurance cost will go up. My preliminary checking into it indicates that I'll be paying at least 30% more for a policy that gives no where near as good of coverage for major medical costs.
    Sure, the deductible will be lower, and more minor stuff will be covered, but if I need something really major I'll be tens of thousands of dollars in the hole that I wouldn't have been with what I'm currently paying much less for.
    Physician owned "for profit" hospitals are also under assault.

    Obamacare isn't an attempt to "fix" the health care system, or reduce medical costs. It is designed to wreck the private health care system so the government can step in and take it over completely with a single payer system.
    If you believe otherwise, you are a fool.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    west burbs,il
    Posts
    145
    I voted for obama the first time and won't do it again! Yes did obama create more debt (yes) but who started it all (bush)- as some have forgotten. Still 2 morons. I dont like the obama care especially for the fact that I'm gonna get penalized for not having insurance, I go to the doctor when need be but pay my bill at the counter, I don't believe I need it yet cause I'm still a young guy. Its like saying lets penalize the people for not having car insurance when these same people don't have a license and take public transportation to get to where they're going. Where did my freedom of choice go?! As if taxes and every other cost isn't enough, gov't still wants more money.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I would like to see how it takes your insurance co three times the premium to operate in the black now. I doubt the cause is lawsuits or salaries. Do you realize every single one of their costs would have to triple to legitimize that increase?

    As for govt making money, that isn’t their purpose. But what comes to mind is the cost difference between our military and say Blackwater. Private enterprise costs way more. How about police, fire and schools. Would they be cheaper if privatized?
    so in other words you can't find a single government entity/department/section that has shown they can run any enterprise and not loose money.

    For example, the post office, in the red every year

    Medicare, in the red every year

    .......anyone?
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  9. #48
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,288
    Quote Originally Posted by canusayinsanity View Post
    I voted for obama the first time and won't do it again! Yes did obama create more debt (yes) but who started it all (bush)- as some have forgotten. Still 2 morons. I dont like the obama care especially for the fact that I'm gonna get penalized for not having insurance, I go to the doctor when need be but pay my bill at the counter, I don't believe I need it yet cause I'm still a young guy. Its like saying lets penalize the people for not having car insurance when these same people don't have a license and take public transportation to get to where they're going. Where did my freedom of choice go?! As if taxes and every other cost isn't enough, gov't still wants more money.
    so if Obama get re-elected, whats his excuse going to be........."look at the mess I created and then inherited" or is he going to continue to blame Bush

    sheeesh I tired of everyone trying to blame Bush for the absolute economic disaster we are in now

    How does anyone become president and 30 days later, after doing NOTHING, gets a Nobel Peace Prize.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,593
    If you are against Health Care Reform, you are against National Defense, and National Security; as they go hand in hand. The general health of the younger generation has been in decline for many years. If we had to impliment an emergency draft, we'd be in big trouble.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,749
    Draft the unemployed.... boot camp will get them back in good physical condition.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,749
    Yes, I do have all the answers.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  13. #52
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhat View Post
    If you are against Health Care Reform, you are against National Defense, and National Security; as they go hand in hand. The general health of the younger generation has been in decline for many years. If we had to impliment an emergency draft, we'd be in big trouble.
    really, your statement is complete BS what does Health care reform have to do with personal responsibility.

    If some ones kid is a fat pig, how is health care reform going to change peoples P-poor eating habits and complete lack of exercise???
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

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