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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kls-ccc View Post
    I realize that over $500 a month is a problem for health care. I don't see where taking $500 from me to give the the government to pay someone elses health care lowers the healthcare cost it just shifts the burden. So what happens when you shift the burden? Prices go up at the point where the burden shifted to i.e. if you make business pay for it the prices of that businesses products are giong to go up. So again the price has not lowered for anyone it is just shifted, but then to add to that you also have to pay for the employees of the government which just adds more cost. So now th eprice has gone up not down.

    You ask where my plan is? right here. Why are medical cost so high? Insurance and law suites. Why is medical insurance so high for medical providers?, law suites. Are you seeing a pattern yet. You can't fix health care without torte reform { law suites} with the mojority of congressmen and senators being lawyers do you really think that will happen, i don't care what party they are! You can't fix a problem by just looking at the cost, you have to look at what is causing that cost, then fix the underlying cause. That's the problem with Obamacare, it doesn't fix the problem, it attacks the symptom. Like if you had small pox and you just put a cream on it for the rash, it doesn't really do anything for the cause of the small pox.

    Govenment answer to almost everything is through more money at it, which is ussually the worst answer. The only problem you can change with money is wealth. You take enough money away from the wealthy and they will not be wealthy anymore. And this president talks about helping hte middleclass but he has done more to help the wealthy than anything else, then lie about it and blame soemone else. So I really don't trust his plan.
    Helath insurance premiums have doubled and even tripled over the last few years. In order for the cause to be lawsuits, lawsuit payouts would have to multiple by about ten to be the cause. I find that very unlikely.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by kls-ccc View Post

    I realize that over $500 a month is a problem for health care. I don't see where taking $500 from me to give the the government to pay someone elses health care lowers the healthcare cost it just shifts the burden. So what happens when you shift the burden? Prices go up at the point where the burden shifted to i.e. if you make business pay for it the prices of that businesses products are giong to go up. So again the price has not lowered for anyone it is just shifted, but then to add to that you also have to pay for the employees of the government which just adds more cost. So now th eprice has gone up not down.

    You ask where my plan is? right here. Why are medical cost so high? Insurance and law suites. Why is medical insurance so high for medical providers?, law suites. Are you seeing a pattern yet. You can't fix health care without torte reform { law suites} with the mojority of congressmen and senators being lawyers do you really think that will happen, i don't care what party they are! You can't fix a problem by just looking at the cost, you have to look at what is causing that cost, then fix the underlying cause. That's the problem with Obamacare, it doesn't fix the problem, it attacks the symptom. Like if you had small pox and you just put a cream on it for the rash, it doesn't really do anything for the cause of the small pox.

    Govenment answer to almost everything is through more money at it, which is ussually the worst answer. The only problem you can change with money is wealth. You take enough money away from the wealthy and they will not be wealthy anymore. And this president talks about helping hte middleclass but he has done more to help the wealthy than anything else, then lie about it and blame soemone else. So I really don't trust his plan.
    I think the idea behind Obama care is that if I go to the doctor today and do not pay my bill when you go to the doctor at a later date the prices will be higher...everyone is trying to cover their losses...if we all pay the prices would theoretically drop because there are no losses to account for.

    500 dollars a month is way above what the maximum fine will be for not carrying insurance.

  3. #16
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    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
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    2,180
    Brian, what you find hard to believe does nothing to change the facts. Pay attention to anyone in the knkow about healthcare and they will tell you until we have torte reform costs will continue to rise.

    A Student, the idea behind Obama care is redistribution of wealth and government control. When I say redistribution of wealth what I am saying is taking money form the middle class and giving it to those in power. Really, have you ever seen a law go into affect that had a negative impact on those in power?

  4. #17
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    Feb 2007
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    Helena, Montana
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    Does anyone else find it odd that the libs have a problem with voter ID because "there has to be a better way", but yet are willing to dive in head first with no safety net into Obamacare because "something had to be done with the broken system"? Hmmmm.....
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  5. #18
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Just as I suspected, you couldn't come up with one, but that was a nice dance. Yet you say they are out there. Well, I have "shopped", have you?

    I know the costs very well. Apparently you do not. But go on using ambiguous terms like "AFFORDABLE".
    Oh, I have a system that works fine for me... you would not like it though. It requires faith in the Biblical God, with NO guarantee of payment. Still interested?
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  6. #19
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Helath insurance premiums have doubled and even tripled over the last few years. In order for the cause to be lawsuits, lawsuit payouts would have to multiple by about ten to be the cause. I find that very unlikely.
    Lawsuits have always been known to be a major source of insurance cost, that is utterly beyond dispute. More recent outlandish increases coincide with the passing of obamacare. I am not sure why, but the timing could hardly be coincidental.
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  7. #20
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by kls-ccc View Post
    Brian, what you find hard to believe does nothing to change the facts. Pay attention to anyone in the know about healthcare and they will tell you until we have torte reform costs will continue to rise.
    Stop repeating what others say is the cause and think it through on your own. If your premium is $100 and $20 of that goes to lawsuits, when your premium goes to $300 because of a supposed increase in lawsuits you are now paying $220 dollars of your premium toward lawsuits. Do the math. It is impossible.

    Torte reform is needed but it isn’t the reason for the recent increases.

  8. #21
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    Feb 2007
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    Helena, Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Stop repeating what others say is the cause and think it through on your own. If your premium is $100 and $20 of that goes to lawsuits, when your premium goes to $300 because of a supposed increase in lawsuits you are now paying $220 dollars of your premium toward lawsuits. Do the math. It is impossible.

    Torte reform is needed but it isn’t the reason for the recent increases.
    I have a good friend that's a doctor and he would disagree with you completely. The amount of money he has to pay for malpractice insurance is astronomical! He's just a family practioner, but to cover his butt in case of a lawsuit he has to have this insurance. His insurance rates went up last year, even though he has never had a claim. Guess what....his office visit rates went up to reflect his insurance increase.

    The frivilous lawsuits that have become common place in America are costing every working person money. The insurance companies will settle out of court even if you don't have a case. Why? Because in most states, you can't recoup court fees in defending yourself. It's cheaper to settle. Just one big giant rip-off!
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  9. #22
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Lawsuits have always been known to be a major source of insurance cost, that is utterly beyond dispute. More recent outlandish increases coincide with the passing of Obamacare. I am not sure why, but the timing could hardly be coincidental.
    True, the passing of Obamacare sent insurance premiums through the roof. Obama forced insurance companies to provide additional coverage (pre-existing conditions, etc) so they just passed the cost on to us.

    If Obama cannot see how he has increased insurance premiums he is more of an idiot than before. But what I cannot understand is how the Republicans bash his plan while refusing to even acknowledge we have a healthcare problem in this country. If they did, they would have a plan of their own. They don’t.

    My opinion why: Republicans won’t do anything to curtail the profits of any money grubbing business, even when people are dying and going bankrupt. They are fixated on someone possibly getting something for free.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    True, the passing of Obamacare sent insurance premiums through the roof. Obama forced insurance companies to provide additional coverage (pre-existing conditions, etc) so they just passed the cost on to us.

    If Obama cannot see how he has increased insurance premiums he is more of an idiot than before. But what I cannot understand is how the Republicans bash his plan while refusing to even acknowledge we have a healthcare problem in this country. If they did, they would have a plan of their own. They don’t.

    My opinion why: Republicans won’t do anything to curtail the profits of any money grubbing business, even when people are dying and going bankrupt. They are fixated on someone possibly getting something for free.
    I doubt, could be wrong, that the Republicans would deny there is a problem with the healthcare system or more precisely the insurance industry. As you and many others have stated, it's all about the money. They don't want to step on their donor's toes. Until, and I doubt it will ever happen, lobbyists are banned completely, the best interest of the country will never be taken to heart by both parties.

    Curious though, the number of speakers at the DNC from lobbyist organizations....
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    I have a good friend that's a doctor and he would disagree with you completely. The amount of money he has to pay for malpractice insurance is astronomical! He's just a family practioner, but to cover his butt in case of a lawsuit he has to have this insurance. His insurance rates went up last year, even though he has never had a claim. Guess what....his office visit rates went up to reflect his insurance increase.

    The frivolous lawsuits that have become common place in America are costing every working person money. The insurance companies will settle out of court even if you don't have a case. Why? Because in most states, you can't recoup court fees in defending yourself. It's cheaper to settle. Just one big giant rip-off!
    I do not doubt the increase of his malpractice insurance costs. What I do doubt is that it affects insurance rates to the tune of doubling and tripling them. Like I said, do the math. What is that doctor’s gross income compared to the increase in his malpractice insurance? I’d say less than 5%...an insignificant percentage above what he was paying.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I do not doubt the increase of his malpractice insurance costs. What I do doubt is that it affects insurance rates to the tune of doubling and tripling them. Like I said, do the math. What is that doctor’s gross income compared to the increase in his malpractice insurance? I’d say less than 5%...an insignificant percentage above what he was paying.
    Follow the trail...if doctor's insurance increases, his rates increase, your insurance to cover his rate increases. No it's not the sole cause, but is a large contributing factor.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  13. #26
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    One thing I believe has caused insurance costs to skyrocket is: We expect the insurance co to pay for literally everything.

    Think with me: What is the difference between major/catastrophic only insurance, and insurance that covers everything from a simple splinter in my finger to a heart-attack? The answer is a HUGE amount.
    When I was a kid growing up... few working folks could afford full coverage, M/C was the norm. And guess what: folks were careful with their lives to keep their medical bills down.

    IMO we are a spoiled bunch of irresponsible people that want someone else to pay for our lack of responsibility with our health and our bodies.

    And do not even get me started as to whether or not I should be paying for medical issues associated with drug use or other irresponsible choices.

    IMO there is little wrong with the medical system; which taking responsibility for our lives and being thrifty would not cure... through the free market system of supply and demand. Simply: When I take care of my body (eat right, exercise right, get enough rest, etc), I go to the doc less. Guess what; doc has to lower his prices to be competitive. Doc does not need 3 houses, 5 cars, 2 boats, and an airplane... Doc needs to pay off his student loans, and live a reasonable life like we do.

    Supply and demand works... when the govt stays OUT of it.
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