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  1. #274
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    Thousands of incidents of voter fraud have been posted and there is nothing in the Constitution stating that someone can vote without first proving they are legally allowed to vote.

    There are so many red herrings being slung across the path of this discussion that the hounds couldn't find their own butts.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    Party affiliation aside, isn't this a moral issue? OH WAIT....we aren't allowed to bring up morals anymore in today's kinder, gentler, society....
    It's not that we are not allowed to bring up morals, it's just that the leftists don't understand what morals are because they've no experience with morals.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #276
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    Jul 2009
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    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It's not that we are not allowed to bring up morals, it's just that the leftists don't understand what morals are because they've no experience with morals.
    I disagree,
    When it come to the issues I tend to side more with the right but when it comes to morals I'll side more with the left.
    I'm not talking about the crooked politicians but about those that follow them. I have more respect for a stupid man with compassion than a smart man who has none.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  4. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I disagree,
    When it come to the issues I tend to side more with the right but when it comes to morals I'll side more with the left.
    I'm not talking about the crooked politicians but about those that follow them. I have more respect for a stupid man with compassion than a smart man who has none.
    I was just being a smartass. I don't know if we should be calling the misguided benevolence that most liberals feel, as long as they can get "government" to pay for their benevolence, morals. I don't think that most liberals actually have any comprehension how life works. They just feel for others and want to take care of those who are downtrodden by telling everyone else we have to pay for their compassionate feelings.

    In reality, societies compassion is about a lot more than throwing money at those who become feeling entitled to be taken care of. People need assistance of many kinds for many reasons. For every good reason for a person to become in need of help, government agencies invent five more. For those truly in need for reasons beyond their control, there has always been private organizations and even individual citizens who take care of those needy on a basis consistant with each individual area. By government taking over being benevolent to the needy, we just create more needy. There are a lot of Americans on welfare programs who would have muddled along taking care of themselves if it was not so easy for them to let government take care of them.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #278
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    ....................
    In reality, societies compassion is about a lot more than throwing money at those who become feeling entitled to be taken care of. People need assistance of many kinds for many reasons. For every good reason for a person to become in need of help, government agencies invent five more. For those truly in need for reasons beyond their control, there has always been private organizations and even individual citizens who take care of those needy on a basis consistant with each individual area. By government taking over being benevolent to the needy, we just create more needy. There are a lot of Americans on welfare programs who would have muddled along taking care of themselves if it was not so easy for them to let government take care of them.
    Now that I definitely agree with
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  6. #279
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    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,297
    Everything government does is some form of a moral claim. All governments are a claim of some kind on morality. All law is moral. Anytime someone (person or government) says you ought not do this or that they are taking a moral stand. When the government passes a law they are staking a moral claim that you ought not do something or they will somehow punish you. That is a moral judgment.

    When someone tells me that I have no right to force my moral judgment on them they are actually making a moral judgment on me. It is not a matter of making moral judgments it is a matter of which moral judgment will be enforced. I have had people tell me that since I am a Christian I have not right to force my morality on others by participating in politics. They are very, very wrong. We all have some sort of source for our personal moral positions and we each have a right to vote accordingly.

    Government's very right to rule over everyone else is in itself a moral claim. You can't get away from morality. Each of us has some sort of morality good or bad. In fact, we could argue what is good morally and what is bad morally.

    This is one reason our right to vote and for each of us to have a fair vote is so important. It is one of the very few ways I as a single individual can have my say as to how this government is going to rule in my life. Fair voting is critical and should be charished and protected. Voter ID is just one simple way to help protect it but is not the only protection it should have. Democrats don't seem to understand or charish this right to a fair vote.

    Hugh B

  7. #280
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    Feb 2006
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    Atlanta,GA.
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    875
    well its hard to prove voter fraud until you know who.s trying to vote , I cant go to scrap yard without showing Id . so why should you be allowed to vote without it, you need Id to get welfare, foodstamps and medicaid and medicareso they should have an id

  8. #281
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillerout1 View Post
    well its hard to prove voter fraud until you know who.s trying to vote , I cant go to scrap yard without showing Id . so why should you be allowed to vote without it, you need Id to get welfare, foodstamps and medicaid and medicareso they should have an id
    It's hard to think of situations where you not only have to show I.D., but also submit to the humility of getting your I.D. photocopied. Things weren't like this in the 70's and 80's. Now, there is a fear and paranoia in our culture. Times when I must submit to getting my DL or Passport photocopied:

    1. Try to rent an apartment
    2. Try to rent a room at an extended stay motel
    3. Try to rent a room at a cheap hotel like Motel 6 or Super 8
    4. Apply for just about any job--especially temp agencies
    5. Go to take drug test for that job
    6. Try to rent a storage unit
    7. I had to get DL photocopied even when I became member at a discount grocery store
    8. Rent a car at Enterprise
    9. The last 2 out of 3 dentist offices I visited, they insisted on photocopying my I.D.--and I was paying cash!
    10. At the hospital here in Ft. Worth for poor folks--John Petersmith Hospital. You could be dying but if you don't get your DL photocopied, forget it.
    11. Food stamps and other types of welfare.

    We live in a paranoid culture now. 25 years ago, it wasn't necessary to get your DL photocopied anywhere. What have I missed?

  9. #282
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Losantiville
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    1,763
    The voter ID law in PA comes before the State Supreme Court today. The previous judge cited an old case to justify his ruling, that case is Patterson v. Bigelow.

    Where population greatly abounds vice and virtue have their greatest extremes. A simple rural population needs no night police, and no lock-up. Rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors’ boarding-houses, and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes of imported bullies and vagabonds, and to cast them multiplied upon the polls as voters. In large cities such things exist, and its proper population therefore needs greater protection, and local legislation must come to their relief. The freedom and equality of the ballot-box must be protected from the local causes which mar and destroy a free and equal election. Patterson v. Bigelow (1869)

    It seems the more things change the more they stay the same.

  10. #283
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    The voter ID law in PA comes before the State Supreme Court today. The previous judge cited an old case to justify his ruling, that case is Patterson v. Bigelow.

    Where population greatly abounds vice and virtue have their greatest extremes. A simple rural population needs no night police, and no lock-up. Rogues and strumpets do not nightly traverse the deserted highways of the farmer. Low inns, restaurants, sailors’ boarding-houses, and houses of ill fame do not abound in rural precincts, ready to pour out on election day their pestilent hordes of imported bullies and vagabonds, and to cast them multiplied upon the polls as voters. In large cities such things exist, and its proper population therefore needs greater protection, and local legislation must come to their relief. The freedom and equality of the ballot-box must be protected from the local causes which mar and destroy a free and equal election. Patterson v. Bigelow (1869)

    It seems the more things change the more they stay the same.
    That sounds like all the more reason for voters to have to prove who they are, so that the Democrat bullies and vagabonds cannot mar and destroy a free and equal election.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #284
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    Apr 2009
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    2,297
    Lawyers prepare to challenge voting laws in court following the election results.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88B1LQ20120912

  12. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Lawyers prepare to challenge voting laws in court following the election results.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88B1LQ20120912
    Exactly what I've been saying all along. This has nothing to do with stopping illegal voting. It's all about stopping people who tend to vote Democratic. If the poor minorities tended to vote Republican then the Democrats & Republicans would both switch their positions on photo ID's. Neither care about what is right, just about winning an election. How the access to vote vs. the integrity of the election can be split completely among party lines is absurd. Despite what some here have said is obvious, this is a very complex issue. Even the courts are divided on it, yet each party knows the definitive answer. That answer is the only thing that is quite obvious, "Whatever helps us win the election, that's what side we're on".
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  13. #286
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    2,155
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Exactly what I've been saying all along. This has nothing to do with stopping illegal voting. It's all about stopping people who tend to vote Democratic. If the poor minorities tended to vote Republican then the Democrats & Republicans would both switch their positions on photo ID's. Neither care about what is right, just about winning an election. How the access to vote vs. the integrity of the election can be split completely among party lines is absurd. Despite what some here have said is obvious, this is a very complex issue. Even the courts are divided on it, yet each party knows the definitive answer. That answer is the only thing that is quite obvious, "Whatever helps us win the election, that's what side we're on".
    I would agree with you except for one thing. I as an Americna care. It doesn't matter to me if I stop left or right votes. It's wrong, period, end of story.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

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