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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigjoe View Post
    BTW, there is no charge for going to school with the UA. Everything comes from the dues that you pay.
    Huh?
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Huh?
    ?

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigjoe View Post
    ?
    Read what you wrote.....BTW, there is no charge for going to school with the UA. Everything comes from the dues that you pay.

    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,852
    The employer pays for the UA schooling as part of the benefit package
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,852
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Right to Work, means that you can't be forced to join a union to keep or obtain a job....it also means that you can negotiate your own terms with you employer....which is great if you're an over-acheiver....but probably not-so-great for underacheivers.
    There are plenty of union guys in our trade who have negociated their own packages above and beyond what the union has done. If you are a really talented tech, depending on the shop you are at, you can write your own ticket. You know as well as I there are other ways of compensating techs than just money.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by flange View Post
    I would love for all of the people who claim to make more money working open shop, to do a side by comparison of total package with their union counterparts. Thats right, there are some companies out there who do pay equal to or slightly higher wages, but lets talk total package. Healthcare, retirement, annuity. Put all the cards n the table and lets go.
    Around here, there are a few shops who pay union scale for open shop guys. Those very same shops then have deuctions from payroll for healthcare. This can be from a few hundred, to several thousand per quarter, depending upon how their healthcare plans are setup. Then, they have to contribute to their 401k plans, since there is no pension or annuity. As a famous character once said....show me the money!

    I do business with both open shop and union companies all of the time in our area, and know many of the owners personally. This I can tell you....The owners of open shop companies have nicer cars in the driveway, bigger beach houses, and cry louder about being poor than their union counterparts. So, the men think the boss is poor, and he lives two blocks closer to the beach than the union shop owner. yup, the open shop guys are doing well by their bosses, takking less pay so he can pocket more!!
    This is some real talk, flange. Put them all out on the table.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    North carolina
    Posts
    42
    I asked the question what are you getting from the union. you say they help you bargan and have your back. you guys must be brain washed or something. if i worked somewhere i needed help to keep my job or get a raise its just time to move on.i i hope your dues are only a dollar or two a month at most. compaired to how little you ever need the resource. people need to learn simple economics if you dont bring in but 15 an hour your boss is not going to pay you 25 .

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Read what you wrote.....BTW, there is no charge for going to school with the UA. Everything comes from the dues that you pay.

    I agree its bad wording on my part.

    That's the problem with selective quoting though. You conveniently left out the part of my post which explains what I meant. He stated that the union program isn't that great of a deal if you have to pay for it + pay the dues (as if it were a separate charge for schooling) which is not the case. Which brings me to my original point. Even while paying dues, you still come out on top.

    I can only speak from an apprentice's point of view as that's all I am so take it for what its worth.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigjoe View Post
    I can only speak from an apprentice's point of view as that's all I am so take it for what its worth.
    Which brings up a point I previously made...You're an "apprentice" now in the union. Who and what decides when you progress to "journeyman" when you're in the union? Now, ask yourself the same question about working in open shops....

    For the guys now at the top of the pile, being union is great....but what about the guys at the bottom?

    If you drink enough Kool-Aid, you can wash anything down...
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  10. #49
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bladensburg, OH
    Posts
    17
    At 39 years young, I applied for and was inducted into the the union. It was a cut in pay, but I live very frugally and can adjust. It will take me a few years to be back to the rate of pay I was used to, and a few more to be at twice what I was making before. This is before even considering the health and retirement packages.
    The biggest difference I see so far is the education. There also seems to be comradery and accountability. I think all three are very important in the workplace.
    Time will tell, but as hard as a decision as it was, I think it was the right one for me.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Things to consider are whether or not organized labor is helping or hindering the overall U.S. economy. I am all for any American worker getting the most that they can from what ever job they are doing....unless that job is costing me money through government taxation. For this reason, I am completely against organized labor being involved in any government job or being supported by government through regulations and laws that promote organized labor.

    If we take government intervention out of the Union debate, organized labor unions would have to go back to being the organized crime from which they came from. Take government intervention completely out of our labor issues other than the overall government regulations that prevent abuse of American workers and labor unions cannot exist.

    Yes, there is a small faction of American workers who are making more money and have more benefits than the majority of Americans are making. The fact is though, that all American's who pay taxes are paying for those higher wages and better benefits along with the billions of dollars that go to organized labor unions. Government forces Americans to pay for an organization that in turn supports those politicians that continue to pass laws and regulations that give organized labor more power.

    This is Socialism, pure and simple. And Socialism is a pyramid scam that can only end up with a massive amount of people working for a little bit of nothing to support a small elitist class living in luxury. The question we all need to ask is; When organized labor controls all workers, are we going to be a worker or part of the elite few who will rule?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Which brings up a point I previously made...You're an "apprentice" now in the union. Who and what decides when you progress to "journeyman" when you're in the union? Now, ask yourself the same question about working in open shops....

    For the guys now at the top of the pile, being union is great....but what about the guys at the bottom?

    If you drink enough Kool-Aid, you can wash anything down...
    Oh great, the kool aid metaphor... So what is your advice for new guys entering the field who want to go to school? Go the traditional, more expensive route rather than go through the UA's program? So far, there's been nothing that has given me any amount of regret for joining.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    working overtime
    Posts
    851
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACRoy View Post
    At 39 years young, I applied for and was inducted into the the union. It was a cut in pay, but I live very frugally and can adjust. It will take me a few years to be back to the rate of pay I was used to, and a few more to be at twice what I was making before. This is before even considering the health and retirement packages.
    The biggest difference I see so far is the education. There also seems to be comradery and accountability. I think all three are very important in the workplace.
    Time will tell, but as hard as a decision as it was, I think it was the right one for me.
    That's exactly what I'm about to do

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