Union in right to work state

[RoBoTeq]

You're trading your freedom for security.....sound familiar?

If unions are the be-all, end-all, why has the nationwide percentage of union workforce dropped from 20% to 11% in the last 25 years?

Of that 11%, most are now government employees.

As for the claims of union contractors working on public sector projects, you'd best believe that government money is involved somehow. Otherwise, there is no need for public sector projects to have to pay the higher cost of union companies.

One of the many ways that government supports organized labor is to require that any project that uses any government money must pay prevailing union wages.

How it works is that a company wanting to put in an ice rink in a neighborhood will go to the government and ask for a loan based on that ice rink bringing in money to bolster the economy of the neighborhood. Government provides a low interest loan with tax payer money with the stipulation that the ice rink be built under rules that require prevailing wages be paid so that union contractors are able to successfully bid on the job.

[Jigjoe]

Kool-Aid, indeed. You seem to have the socialist attitude that somebody else owes you an education in your desired career path. Why do you feel this way?

Do you really think that your "union education" is FREE? REALLY? Do you not see the "cost" ?

In an open shop, the cost of education is typically shared between the employee and the employer. Fair enough? I pay for you to go to school, so you can become a better employee....making more money for the company, so in return you can be paid more? Fair enough?

So, who pays the cost of your education in a union shop? Duh, you (via dues), and your employer...

Shortened for relevancy...

Where did I say or give the impression that anything is owed to me?
Where did I say that the UA is cost free?

In an open shop, do all employers share this mind frame that they should send their techs or those interested in wanting a continued education to school? No. Do those types of employers exist? Of course. You can tell me how YOU run things but again, that's irrelevant as were not talking about you or your company. If this was universally accepted than fine, but it isn't. The UA has given me this opportunity. I know the type of student I am, I know the type of worker I am, and I know what my goals are. During the (~7 month) waiting period when I applied to the UA, not only did I enroll in an HVAC program at college but, I also contacted many employers within the area. I didn't sit around and just wait to hear from the UA in hopes of them giving me everything, I actually got off my ass and tried to be proactive. No one gave me an opportunity so I took whatever came my way, hence joining the UA. Sure I could decline their offer and continue going down that dead end path and achieve nothing but why should I have to do that? Fair enough for you? Of course not.

RoBoTeq

I don't disagree with anything you say. See my reply to John.

[RoBoTeq]

On this Labor Day, let's not forget all the contributions organized labor has given us that we now take for granted. Like the 40 hr. work week, paid time off, benefits like healthcare and pension...
Unions have been taking a beating on conservative radio for years, but the fact is, that there are not many non-government union workers left.
I just started a new (non-union) job recently, and I am told "we do not have sick leave". They have Paid time off (PTO) after 1 year of employment. PTO is vacation and sick leave all tied together with a pretty bow, the only problem being that they cut the amount of total time that can be taken off, in half !

The reasoning behind this benefit cut (that many employers are adopting) is "some people take advantage of sick days". I know, some people do take advantage. Some people also abuse alcohol...Can we not deal with the offenders and not punish everyone for the bad behavior of a few?

Corporations definitely have the upper hand at this time in American history.

Yep! Labor Day is absolutely a tribute to American Socialism.
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For those who are not aware of it, the Eugene Debs on that poster is one of the most honored person for labor unions;

Eugene Debs in History of Labor Unions

Eugene Debs (1855-1926) was the president of the American Railway Union and a founding member of the Social Democratic Party of America. Born in Indiana, he dropped out of high school and went to work for the Terre Haute & Indianapolis Railroad at the age of fourteen. He soon became active in the local Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen. In 1893, he helped organize the American Railway Union and became its first president.

During the Pullman strike of 1894, Debs instructed members of the ARU to support Pullman employees by refusing to handle Pullman cars, which were a vital part of the nation's passenger rail system. Debs defied a court order demanding that union leaders cease in their encouragement of the strike and was subsequently sentenced to six months in jail. Shortly thereafter he embraced socialism, helped found the Social Democratic Party of America, and ran for president five times as a socialist candidate.

During World War I, Debs publicly opposed American intervention in the war and consequently was convicted under the 1918 Espionage Act, which imposed sweeping restrictions on speech and actions deemed detrimental to the war effort. Imprisoned in the Atlanta federal penitentiary, Debs ran for president from his jail cell and received more than 900,000 votes in 1920.

[cavalieri85]

For those that. Choose to enter tis thread only to bash unions why not leave your comments to yourself. It seems to be the same few people to do this in every thread that has something to do with unions. We all know your thoughts why not leave the topic alone so that we can have productive conversation.

[cavalieri85]

Some people on this site are union and some are choosing to go union for one reason or another and that is are choice. My reason is not that owed anything or am lazy. I believe I will receive a higher education. I will be more qualified and be able to perform at a higher level for my customers and employer

[zw17]

Yep! Labor Day is absolutely a tribute to American Socialism.

So your out working today, correct?

[RoBoTeq]

For those that. Choose to enter tis thread only to bash unions why not leave your comments to yourself. It seems to be the same few people to do this in every thread that has something to do with unions. We all know your thoughts why not leave the topic alone so that we can have productive conversation.

Why are you advocating suppression of freedom of speech? Is there anything I have posted that is not accurate?

[RoBoTeq]

Some people on this site are union and some are choosing to go union for one reason or another and that is are choice. My reason is not that owed anything or am lazy. I believe I will receive a higher education. I will be more qualified and be able to perform at a higher level for my customers and employer

Sounds good. I truly do hope it works out for you. In the meantime, I will be working to stop government from abusing taxpayer money and their powers by protecting organized labor. With any luck, organized labor can be removed from government protection, so make the most of it while it still exists.

[RoBoTeq]

So your out working today, correct?

I have made it a point to always work on Labor Day, just out of principal. Today I have taken calls from contractors who are doing emergency service work and have written two training blogs for the company I work for.

[chillerout1]

well I joined the union about 16 years ago,I did not go to the school I took the turnout test and passed I was told I did better than most of the people who had spent 5 years going to the school,our school has gotten better but it lacked a lot for service techs,but I attribute that to it being run by plumbers and pipefitters, I get paid better than scale and recieve more benefits than is required by union contract, I vote my own free will not what the union wants me to, one of the things that i like about the union is that my pension and annuity stay with me if i change employers rather than having a bunch of different ones scattered around to try to keep track of, the health insurance I fear will be bankrupt in 5-10 years due to requirements of health care law that passed,the union is what you make of it, and they can still get rid of you if they want to by saying workforce reduction and off you go to sign the book at the hall

[John Markl]

I'm beginning to wonder how many guys "go union", because they can't seem to make it in the trade as non-union workers.......

[Jigjoe]

I'm beginning to wonder how many guys "go union", because they can't seem to make it in the trade as non-union workers.......

As soon as I start work, I'll be more than happy to send you my employer's contact information. Hell, I'll even throw in my school's information as well. Good luck with your investigation.

[Krzyd]

I'm not trying to impugn all unions, but in our area they seem to hang out by their trucks more than non-union guys.

[John Markl]

I'm just amazed....that in today's workforce....with the critical shortage of skilled labor that this country is facing....that any tradesman worth his salt would need a union to obtain suitable employment at fair-market value.....

[supertek65]

you go Robin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!

Frank

Sounds good. I truly do hope it works out for you. In the meantime, I will be working to stop government from abusing taxpayer money and their powers by protecting organized labor. With any luck, organized labor can be removed from government protection, so make the most of it while it still exists.

[supertek65]

there are MANY skilled fitters out there!

of the 1600 or so that I know, I have only known 3 to leave and go non union.

they of course were out of work for over a year first!!!!!!!1

one of them I know is doing very well as a working supervisor.

another did not do so well non union and is now working for the school district.

the other one did not like it and now is back in the union. still missing time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm just amazed....that in today's workforce....with the critical shortage of skilled labor that this country is facing....that any tradesman worth his salt would need a union to obtain suitable employment at fair-market value.....

[RoBoTeq]

I'm just amazed....that in today's workforce....with the critical shortage of skilled labor that this country is facing....that any tradesman worth his salt would need a union to obtain suitable employment at fair-market value.....

Organized labor also decreases the amount of jobs that are available;

“Unions function as labor cartels. A labor cartel restricts the number of workers in a company or industry to drive up the remaining workers’ wages….. Companies pass on those higher wages to consumers through higher prices, and often they also earn lower profits. Economic research finds that unions benefit their members but hurt consumers generally, and especially workers who are denied job opportunities.

[supertek65]

Robin,
your non union rhetoric amuses me!!!!!!!!

You know that you could easily find statements and articles that dispute that!
Of course that is just the opinion of some people!

either way how is your anti socialism weekend going??????

frank

[RoBoTeq]

there are MANY skilled fitters out there!

of the 1600 or so that I know, I have only known 3 to leave and go non union.

they of course were out of work for over a year first!!!!!!!1

one of them I know is doing very well as a working supervisor.

another did not do so well non union and is now working for the school district.

the other one did not like it and now is back in the union. still missing time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are some jobs that are so heavily unionized that there are not many merit shop companies requiring their skills. Fitters are one of those jobs. So, you simply do not have a whole lot to compare with your fellow union workers in your specific job. It's like trying to find a railroad worker who is not union.

If we can get government to stop protecting organized labor in all industries, I doubt that it would mean much in the way of compensation for fitters. It would however increase the profits of the companies that fitters work for which would allow for more fitters to be employed.

[RoBoTeq]

Robin,
your non union rhetoric amuses me!!!!!!!!

You know that you could easily find statements and articles that dispute that!
Of course that is just the opinion of some people!

either way how is your anti socialism weekend going??????

frank

LOL! Going well, Frank. I hope yours is going well also. My wedding anniversary is September 2, so we are celebrating 6 years of marriage this weekend. In fact, now that I am done working for the day, I am grilling some shrimp and crab legs for our anniversary dinner.