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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Here's a twister.
    Whether you illegally flush with R-22 & blow it to the atmosphere or do it legally closed loop you're still going to waste it all unless you illegally reuse what you legally used.
    It is illegal to charge a system with recovered refrigerant unless the refrigerant originated from the same owner, but there is no specific language saying you can not HCFC-22 formerly used for refrigerant for closed loop cleaning.

    In closed loop system, the solvent (HCFC-22 in this case) is recycled and the only loss is through connecting/disconnecting.

  2. #41
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    Jul 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    It is illegal to charge a system with recovered refrigerant unless the refrigerant originated from the same owner, but there is no specific language saying you can not HCFC-22 formerly used for refrigerant for closed loop cleaning.

    In closed loop system, the solvent (HCFC-22 in this case) is recycled and the only loss is through connecting/disconnecting.
    That's an interesting point. Whether the gas is considered reclaimed or recovered after being used for purging a system is a matter of interpretation. I definitely would not call it virgin refrigerant any more so in my mind its recovered & not legally usable. I know you could use it in the same owner's system but in a residential change out that's highly unlikely to happen. I don't really remember the way the law is worded so I might google it & see.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    That's an interesting point. Whether the gas is considered reclaimed or recovered after being used for purging a system is a matter of interpretation. I definitely would not call it virgin refrigerant any more so in my mind its recovered & not legally usable.
    What I'm saying is, if you've got some HCFC-22 you would normally just send it back, I believe you can circulate it through systems regardless of ownership as a cleaning fluid. It will obvious get dirty with use, so you will have to re-distill it at some point by vapor recovering it into another recovery tank. Since the re-purposing of recovered HCFC-22 isn't as a refrigerant, I don't believe reclaiming to ARI-700 standards is applicable. You're essentially cleaning pipes with closed-cycle solvent cleaning system.

  4. #43
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    What I'm saying is, if you've got some HCFC-22 you would normally just send it back, I believe you can circulate it through systems regardless of ownership as a cleaning fluid. It will obvious get dirty with use, so you will have to re-distill it at some point by vapor recovering it into another recovery tank. Since the re-purposing of recovered HCFC-22 isn't as a refrigerant, I don't believe reclaiming to ARI-700 standards is applicable. You're essentially cleaning pipes with closed-cycle solvent cleaning system.
    I get what you're saying & agree, IMO there is no violation using recovered R22 for purging in a closed loop. The problem with that is only virgin R22 is recommended for purging. Recovered gas can have oils & contaminates mixed in so you're no better off than just using plain nitro in that case anyways.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    South
    Posts
    580
    Flushing out a dirty line set with dirty refigerant makes no sense to me either.
    We're getting into the "I wish I was rocket scientist" part of the discussion now, this is not that complicated.

  6. #45
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I get what you're saying & agree, IMO there is no violation using recovered R22 for purging in a closed loop. The problem with that is only virgin R22 is recommended for purging. Recovered gas can have oils & contaminates mixed in so you're no better off than just using plain nitro in that case anyways.
    I think it is for simplification and eliminate one of the variables for warranty claims.
    OEM spec is for known quality. There are others that meet the quality but by simply stating the exact item they reduced all the questions and such that would get called in.

    You'll find just about everything recommending nothing but OEM parts or OEM specified. Sometimes it matters, sometimes not.

    Reclaimed to ARI-700 is perfectly legal for use as refrigerant but manufacturers still only recommend virgin.

    Hook up the vapor port of raw recovered cylinder through a "CPS molecular modulator" or another such coil and vapor port on an empty clean cylinder.

    It's not really much work. Hook up two tanks back to back and just let it be overnight.

    Warm the dirty refrigerant with a heat blanket, and cool the coil in water. Leave it alone for a while. It'll be slow so you can do it overnight. If you do it fast with a recovery machine, the oily refrigerant can foam and ingest oil into clean tank.

    In this process, R22 is distilled out from the recovered bottle leaving behind non-volatile oil and sediments. The "catch" cylinder obviously needs to be squeaky clean. A recycling machine would further circulate this product through filter to catch moisture.

    This is basically all recycling machines do. In fact, this is how they do reclamation but with more elaborate filtration. As always, the enemy is contamination with other refrigerant and other volatile stuff like flush.

    Automotive machines are usually recovery recyclers while the HVAC ones are recovery only. Obviously there's much greater allowance for size and weight for something that stays in the shop. Also, in auto world, you can charge recycled refrigerant into anyone's car.

    If the contamination in pipe was oil and things stick in oil ,liquid R22 washes oil.

    If it was glycol coolant residues, flushing with air will get rid of most. Following it with clean water will remove all.

    Same idea. The only difference is that R22 boils below ambient, so there's no chance of accidentally left behind solvent.

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