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  1. #14
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    Aug 2009
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    Jurupa Valley, CA
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    1,787
    The great thing about chiller plants, is that they are completely scalable. There are no technical limitations in size of the PLANT, just the units themselves. Of course, the sizing of the individual chillers has some scaling problems - and really, in most cases, having a lot of relatively large chillers is going to make a better plant that a few massive ones.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    A typical plant is usually in the range of 750-3000 tons. yes there are those that are much larger, as in campus wide universities using central chiller plants, hopsitals that sort of thing. When I was an apprentice, 1500-2500 ton MACHINES were commonplace, and punching the tubes on just a few jobs took all winter, by the time you erected scaffolding, pulled the heads etc. Toward the end of my apprenticeship, we installed a plant with 3-2800 ton machines. Then retrofitted two very old open drive machines, 3000 tons each with two 1500 ton compresors per barrel. That was many moons ago though, and lately, a 1000 ton machine is big, with multpiples on a site for redundancy.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    166
    Has anybody worked at/toured Con Edison Steam??? Now THAT plant would be interesting to visit. I've heard they have boilers 7 stories tall!!

    Anybody ever seen anything like this?

    Thanks again for all the imput!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,599
    Supposedly Indy's district heating is 2nd in size only to New York. The plant next door to Lucas Oil Stadium will be converting to gas soon. No more coal trains running, sorry Doobie Brothers.


  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    Those old boilers ued to be commonplace, and go back in many cases to the days of coal. In those days, it was coal by the carload, then many went to number six oil, prior to going to dual fuel or gas. I lost a bid at a boeing plant for a few of those boilers, totalling six boilers, at roughly 5000 horsepower if I recall correctly.

    I guess I am lucky, as I orked for a company that did all that big stuff back in the day. Now that I am an old man of 45, I see a lot of smaller stuff. Had one account running three, 300 hp boilers at 350 degree hot water for about ten years.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Orange County N.Y.
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    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by MHall View Post
    This is a question for all those who work as building engineers or service larger equipment.

    The largest plant I've seen is The Co-op City (The Bronx) plant. I believe that they were originally Westinghouse steam driven open drives. Now they are steam driven Carrier 17M machines. Retrofitted to the original shells. I don't recall how many chillers are in the plant since I had nothing to do with the retrofit and I was only there one time. I'm thinking that there were at least 4- 6,000ton machines and it could have been up to 6 or 7 of them.

    ...Ron
    Roof Rat

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966
    back in '96 i was in co-op City when they where R-12 chillers and the engineers said they leaked bigtime,and he quipped that the chiled water supply line to the co-ops had a long time leaking into that Pelham Bay just down from the Conner Street I-95 bridge.did a compressor change at Con Ed Ravenswood steam plant for the control room cooling...spooky bunch of guys in that place watching cameras mounted inside the burner sections watching the flames.after a 5 story walk up within i got to the control room
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,817
    Most people don't get to see this Plus this information is over 30 years old and no longer true but the Capitol Power plant as well as the military complex out in Virginia where all the Brass resides have unbelievable systems.

    The Capitol power plant use to span all over Capitol hill and took care of the heating/cooling for many, many buildings. The cooling towers were stories high. This is no longer true but the size tonage and floor wise and the heating capacity, much steam used, was actually very hard to believe.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    166
    Thanks for the replies! So, did anyone ever actually get to tour the original WTC Plant??

  10. #23
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    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by MHall View Post
    Thanks for the replies! So, did anyone ever actually get to tour the original WTC Plant??
    When I worked at Honeywell we studied the engineering/fire/security systems for the building via a film made for this purpose. That film, if still around, would be a good thing to have.

    I remember one engineer taking about the necessity of having machine rooms on ever 5thor so floor just so the water pressure could be maintained in a safe manner. He described the reason why in that if a water fountain were connected to the same supply line which rose all 105 strories or so that the water pressure at the bottom of that same column line would be so high it would take off someones head if they bent over to take a drink.

    And that is why, according to the film, that many machine rooms had to be built. He also described the common problem of flushing a comode on the top floor and letting it free fall to the basement.............
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  11. #24
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    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    When I worked at Honeywell we studied the engineering/fire/security systems for the building via a film made for this purpose. That film, if still around, would be a good thing to have.

    I remember one engineer taking about the necessity of having machine rooms on ever 5thor so floor just so the water pressure could be maintained in a safe manner. He described the reason why in that if a water fountain were connected to the same supply line which rose all 105 strories or so that the water pressure at the bottom of that same column line would be so high it would take off someones head if they bent over to take a drink.

    And that is why, according to the film, that many machine rooms had to be built. He also described the common problem of flushing a comode on the top floor and letting it free fall to the basement.............
    That's not entirely uncommon in pretty much any building grater than about 15 stories. 14 entire stories of the Burj Khalifa are entirely devoted to mechanical systems. (I think it's actually 7 rooms, 2 stories high, about every 30 floors).

  12. #25
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    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    7,817
    I never really had a reason to think about this particular engineering until the World Trade Centers were presented to us in a math form by this engineer when he calculated the pressure that would be on the bottom of a water line that would be 100 plus stories high.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ohio
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    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    I never really had a reason to think about this particular engineering until the World Trade Centers were presented to us in a math form by this engineer when he calculated the pressure that would be on the bottom of a water line that would be 100 plus stories high.
    Pffffttt... It would only be a measly 433psi.

    Who couldn't handle that out of a drinking fountain?

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