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  1. #1
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    Need to document a bad installation, who to contact?

    A few weeks ago, I had posted about an installation where the contractor installed a 410r outdoor compressor unit, a new expansion valve and changed the 22r system to 410r. Bottom line is that things have escalated, I requested that he come and take the unit away, after his company tried to get the system to work after 3 repair attempts. He says he will not pick up the unit, that legally he is not required to, and that I have not given him an opportunity to fix the system, but as things have progressed it's not reasonable for me to think, no. 4 will be any different.

    You all were very helpful in identifying the potential issues with this kind of installation. I don't know where I'd be without you.

    I have no choice at this point but to contact another company and have them change out the entire unit, outside and inside, to a compatible system.

    My question is, before the current system is taken out I have a number of things to address.

    1) No legal sniffing here.

    2) Also my home does not have a garage, what do I do with the compressor unit the other company installed. It is hurricane season here, and do not want an unsecured unit sitting on my deck. The company that installed it will not retrieve it.

    I've already contacted the BBB, and the next step is the Licensing board, but have determined that a lot of the information they told me during the installation is inaccurate, so I want an impartial expert to write a report.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 08-25-2012 at 09:00 PM.

  2. #2
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    Why cant you just reuse the outdoor unit and match a new coil and furnace to it

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    Why cant you just reuse the outdoor unit and match a new coil and furnace to it
    I had been told at one point that part of the issues I'm having with the unit might stem from the system not being evacuated properly and that the outdoor compressor might have become compromised with the old refrigerant.

    This is why I need someone to come in and document exactly what is wrong with the system.

  4. #4
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    you need to contact the inspection department (if there is one for where ever you are located; county government

    licenscing board

    Let's not go there, OK?

    in that order
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  5. #5
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    First, as a moderator, I have to say that any sniffing for legal advice is a shortcut to a closed thread. I will edit that part of your original post and we can keep it below that level for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by cookie12 View Post
    I had been told at one point that part of the issues I'm having with the unit might stem from the system not being evacuated properly and that the outdoor compressor might have become compromised with the old refrigerant.


    As a tech, this is total crap.

    The evacuation thing has some merit, however.

    It will be almost impossible to diagnose a unit that is just sitting in your garage if I'm understanding your post properly.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    First, as a moderator, I have to say that any sniffing for legal advice is a shortcut to a closed thread. I will edit that part of your original post and we can keep it below that level for now.





    As a tech, this is total crap.

    The evacuation thing has some merit, however.

    It will be almost impossible to diagnose a unit that is just sitting in your garage if I'm understanding your post properly.
    So, I re-read your post that you do not have a garage. Sorry.

    Regardless, unless the system is installed and operating, there are very few problems that can be properly diagnosed.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    First, as a moderator, I have to say that any sniffing for legal advice is a shortcut to a closed thread. I will edit that part of your original post and we can keep it below that level for now.





    As a tech, this is total crap.

    The evacuation thing has some merit, however.

    It will be almost impossible to diagnose a unit that is just sitting in your garage if I'm understanding your post properly.
    The unit is still installed, which is why I was asking for advice on who to contact for diagnosis. I have had 5 different contractors out here, 4 of which really weren't technical, just salesmen. The one who worked for himself said that because of the way the system is set up here, with the air handler being on the second floor, and the compressor outside on a deck, the possibility is stronger that the oil would migrate.

    The thing is at this point, someone with nothing to gain from this needs to come in and take a look. Someone who can just write a non biased technical evaluation of the existing unit. I'm not so much looking for legal advice but advice on where to find someone who can write something up for me. The original contractor has already given me all the reasons why this set up isn't working that he has contradicted himself more than once.

    Just looking for the truth, and there's so much that can be done over the internet.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie12 View Post
    The unit is still installed, which is why I was asking for advice on who to contact for diagnosis. I have had 5 different contractors out here, 4 of which really weren't technical, just salesmen. The one who worked for himself said that because of the way the system is set up here, with the air handler being on the second floor, and the compressor outside on a deck, the possibility is stronger that the oil would migrate.

    The thing is at this point, someone with nothing to gain from this needs to come in and take a look. Someone who can just write a non biased technical evaluation of the existing unit. I'm not so much looking for legal advice but advice on where to find someone who can write something up for me. The original contractor has already given me all the reasons why this set up isn't working that he has contradicted himself more than once.

    Just looking for the truth, and there's so much that can be done over the internet.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    It's going to be difficult to find someone with "nothing to gain" because you will be paying them.

    I don't know your location, but have you tried our Contractor locator map? I do know that several others have had good luck getting persistent and difficult problems resolved that way.

    Another avenue might be to try to contact the manufacturer of the equipment. They may have a field service person in your area that can assist you as well.

  9. #9
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    No worries about the misunderstanding. By nothing to gain, I meant, they wouldn't be in a position to sell me a unit because of the findings in the report. Like a consultant, or AC trouble shooter, don't know if something like this even exists, someone like an inspector who would be paid for the inspection document but not be in retail.

    The nearest contractor on the map is over an hour away.

    The manufacturer rep suggestion sounds like a good one, maybe they'll be able to answer the question about whether or not the warrantee has been voided with this type of mixed installation.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie12 View Post
    The unit is still installed, which is why I was asking for advice on who to contact for diagnosis. I have had 5 different contractors out here, 4 of which really weren't technical, just salesmen. The one who worked for himself said that because of the way the system is set up here, with the air handler being on the second floor, and the compressor outside on a deck, the possibility is stronger that the oil would migrate.
    Oil migration is not the issue here when discussing a conversion from R22 to R410A. The amount of old mineral oil left in the remaining R22 parts of the system can be an issue, depending on how thoroughly the old parts were flushed before the new condenser was installed.

    While good techs can make an old R22 evaporator coil work with a new R410 outdoor condensing unit, good techs would also advise you to change the entire system vs. piece work. It's more expensive, but look where you are now. Faced with the possibility of starting all over again. The old saying "Never enough time (or money) to do it right the first time, but always time (or money) to do it over again" may apply here.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  11. #11
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    Ac service techs dislike writing leighthy reports, also dislike loosing pay while sitting in court. As has been said find a contractor that is on the aop map ,

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    Ac service techs dislike writing leighthy reports, also dislike loosing pay while sitting in court. As has been said find a contractor that is on the aop map ,

    As stated before, the closest on the AOP map is over an hour away.

    I didn't mean for this topic to put anyone on the defensive, just like anything else, there are good companies and bad companies and we always hear about the bad ones. When he sold me this system there was no discussion of incompatibility or lower effective SEER ratings, the unit froze over twice after installation, there was no acknowledgement that it was not normal, and when they came out the last time I was told my vents were too small, that the fan was not spinning fast enough, and then they didn't show up. They didn't set a time for when they would be back to fix it saying only, sometime this week, and nothing. By the time I called, I was not happy, then they said they would come out and replace the valve again. I have had the pleasure of forking over a big chunk of money to have a house that cools down to a balmy 80 during the day, providing I don't run the clothes dryer, turn on the oven, keep all the blinds closed, don't open any doors or take a hot shower. I can tell you that after 7 weeks of this, I'm not happy but I do need to do something. At this point he doesn't even acknowledge the number of times they have tried to fix the system without success. So it's time I think to document the system's performance because in the end that is what needs to be fixed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie12 View Post
    As stated before, the closest on the AOP map is over an hour away.
    Have you contacted them?

    Depending on the situation, they may be willing to work with you to get this resolved.

    For me, an hour is a fairly short drive.

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