410 a vs R22 upgrade in old brick home question heat pomp
AC expert . . .
. . . I need advice. Michael Cordes Signal Hill, Illinois (6 miles from St. Louis Arch)
I have an old carrier condenser that leaks at the Schrader valve and in the condenser. American Home Shield, “AHS” will not replace the condenser with 410a coolant refrigerant model. They will replace it with a R22 refrigerant coolant unit. They recommend a 2.5 T., 15 SEER R22 units.
If I wish to go to 410a coolant unit as an upgrade, they will send me a check for $935 as a cash option. I then have the choice to hire my own licensed installer to do an upgrade. To date Ahs has repaired my AC with a new Carrier A coil installed 6 months ago (Model No. 38EH030340 SERIAL NO 4387E58407); they also installed a New Compressor (Copeland No. CR30K6 – PFV 875 Serial No. 11F3824H); they put in a new fan motor (Fits co Model No. D923 # HC35S1231); a new relay in the handler (No. 90-380(; a hard start kit; a can of “stop leak” and to date 27 lbs of R22 coolant in three visits (9 lbs. each time).
My question is should I go for the 410a coolant at my expense for the upgrade above the 925 cash allowance?
We, wife and I, lived in this 100 year old home raising 10 children for more than 35 years. Two AC units one HVAC horizontal gas fired forced air on the second floor. And for the first floor and basement the failed unit. This area is heated with the wonderful radiator / hot water boiler heat. Now that we are empty nesters, we except when needed seal off the second floor – close off the basement put a 5,000 BTU window unit in the Master bedroom / bath and a 12,000 BTU window unit in the great / kitchen /dining room. This summer we were without the broken AC (first floor and basement) we did turn on the second floor unit and both window and were maintaining 70 decree temps during our St. Louis 40 days of 100 plus summer temperatures.
We are both 70 and plan to stay (god willing) in this home for 15 or so more years. All our needs can be met on this first floor. We open the rest for visits.
The home is 13 inch solid brick, poorly insulated, single pane windows, and lots of cracks at the doors. Ameren Illinois /UE provide our gas and electric $0.075 per kwh. We only need heat or AC about 90 to 100 days per year. We can pay the bills.
I can have Ahs put the 2.5 T. R22 coolant 15 SEER unit in at no out of pocket cost to us. (We pay them $600 annually (unless we cancel). If I cancel and need Freon R22 is skyrocketing in price, and if I stay with them it will be a $60. Service call all parts and labor on them.
My contract states that they may not us any parts manufactured before January 2010. If the unit fails some day and I am under Ahs plan they must upgrade according to law.
I looked at the following upgrades 410a 2.5 T. 15 SEER would cost me out of pocket $; heat pump 2.5 T. 15 SEER 410a coolant extra $.
Why not just put in a new orifice in the Carrier A coil, and a new 410a compatible or repaired condenser coil. What might that cost?
Your thoughts, Michael Email addresses are not permitted in post, please put it in your profile, thank.
Last edited by beenthere; 08-24-2012 at 08:50 PM.
Reason: prices and email address
Moved to AOP Residential Forum.
Neither prices nor pricing questions are permitted. Email addresses are not permitted in post either, I also removed your phone number. You don't want prank calls from around the world do you.
I would tell them I want the 15 SEER R22 model and the AHRI cert that shows that matchup! I will give you a hint, that ain't going to happen! LOL
They recommend a 2.5 T., 15 SEER R22 units
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Sounds like the home warranty company should have replaced the entire thing when the compressor went bad. At least all the repairs are on their dime. If they are going to install a new condenser for no cost to you then I would let them as long as they know it will fix the leak problem. A whole new 410a system will cost you much more than the check they will write you. Flushing out an evaporator coil to change from 22 to 410a is difficult. It's impossible to know if you get all the old oil out of the coil. Hope this helps you out
Anything you do, get away from the warranty co. 38EH is straight cool though. You can get by better mismatching indoor & outdoor with them than with heat pumps. I don't believe anybody makes a "dry" R22 unit in anything but 13 SEER but still, lousy match. We just put a dry unit on an air handler from the 80s, Bryant version of what you have most likely. Had to overcharge the system considerably to make it work. That compressor won't last long. So, as Steve Miller sings: take the money and run!
take the money and move on, make sure you tell whoever you get to do the replacement that the system has had stop leak added to it and do not reuse any part of that system.
or keep paying the $600 a year and let the warranty co deal with it.
That's very important! That stop leak will start to harden when the system is open and cause all kinds of problems. That's a shame too with all those new parts. Without the stop leak in the system a real tech could repair the leaks and have you fixed in less than three hours.
Originally Posted by t527ed
I'd take the money and run. Between the pay out and the money you save not having the insurance, the new system will be paid for in a few years. That's not counting any energy savings.
Last edited by martyinlincoln; 08-25-2012 at 11:05 AM.
Reason: added info
Stop leak in a system that has either been opened up or will be exposed to the atmosphere causing it to
"Harden" or Cure in the system.
I would broach this subject with the home warranty company asking them why they are willing to put a new condenser on a system that has stop leak in it knowing it will fail. And furthermore any future repair has the same potential outcome.
Just for my own education, I am having a hard time how a 2.5 ton a/c only system has 9 lbs of r-22 in it,
Granted I am not there and the lineset could be very loooooonnnnngggg or the Evaporator could be overtly large.
Also I have never heard of a 15 seer Dry r-22 unit.
Makes you wonder who and what you are dealing with?
If your budget plan is for 15-years, I'd recommend the upgrade. You've now got a unit that is screaming for replacement just based on the repair history. The home warranty company is not in business to give you a good deal. They're in it to make money on the work they do not have done! They pay the companies that charge the least to do repairs and often those repairs are done in a substandard way. Thus, HW companies have a very bad reputation.
I'd recommend you find a great company to make suggestions to you on your options. You'll know they're good simply by asking them how they'll size a new system. Any company that suggests they use ACCA Manaual J, or says they do a load analysis is a company to invite into your home for a quote. Any company that asks what size unit you currently have, says they'll replace it with the same size you currently have, says they have many years of experience and know or says they do it by the square footage of the home is cutting corners and not worthy of you investing in them. Once you've got the quotes, make your decision based on the options presented. There's lots of great HVAC equipment with a lot of options, just like there's a lot of cars with lots of options. Make sure you know what your selecting, what comfort features and benefits you want and you'll get a system that is installed properly and will give you many years of trouble free comfort.
Or you can go on suffering failure after failure and keep playing games with AHS. Your choice.
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If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!
Home warranty companies are a joke.
I also agree with taking the money and putting it toward a new system with all new components and lineset. I also don't feel that any home warranty company is worth paying for HVAC system insurance. Home warranty companies do not allow for the proper repairs and replacements to be done on HVAC systems. May be ok for household appliances, but not for HVAC systems.
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