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  1. #53
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    I believe there is a new show on the military channel called "Military secrets" or something like that. On the clip I saw for it they showed what looked exactly like the sterotypical "flying saucer". I'm sure over the years the military has made many what they thought were secret test flights that probably got seen by others who thought they were from another planet. Hard, idisputable evidence is what will be needed to really convince most people. And thats just not available to manys satisfaction as this time.

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    If you are using Wiki to learn about Rendlesham then you are an armchair debunker.

    As for Von Daniken, he asks many questions and makes very few statements of fact. But since his questions are uncomfortable for science to deal with, they bash him.

    You haven’t shown that you know much at all about the UFO topic yet you can say there is no evidence. …very typical.
    Erect straw men much?

    Wiki is a resource. I'm well schooled in, say, WWII history for example. I still use Wiki to grab a date and things like that now and then. What you have done here is another logical fallacy (you seem to be full of them) called Ad Hominem where, lacking an actual reply to the point made, you instead attack the source (as if that settles things).

    How about this? Actually tackle what I said. Show us that the word "allegedly" was improperly used by Wiki.

    I say there is no HARD evidence. Same tune the entire topic long, and over multiple replies you have yet to demonstrate that statement to be wrong.

    But, please do continue to flap in the breeze... it's most entertaining.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Sure there is. Many photographs were taken from close range of the craft and were handed over to be developed. What was given back to him were blank negatives. But I’m sure you think that is far too sophisticated for our military to switch them out before giving hard evidence back to him.

    If you say there are conflicting testimonies then that is no different than witnessing any event. Accounts always vary. But with Rendlesham there are over 30 servicemen and servicewomen that witnessed the events of those two nights, including the Deputy Base Commander who is still taking about it today.

    If you buy the light house theory then you made up your mind before you even listened to the servicemen. Those servicemen were not smucks. They were guarding nuclear weapons.
    No one said they are shmucks.

    Again, what we have here is an alleged incident. Among many. Nothing shown or discussed has given any sort of hard evidence. At all.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  4. #56
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    US Navy, National Security Agency, James Kopf

    The UFO incident occurred on the USS John F. Kennedy in the summer of 1971. We observed a large, glowing sphere over the ship. It looked huge. I would say it was anywhere from three or four hundred feet to a quarter of a mile depending on how high it was. A few days later, the Commanding Officer looked at the camera – and I will never forget this – and he said, "I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major combat vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know."

    Canadian Transport Department, Senior Radio Engineer, Wilbur Smith

    Flying saucers exist. The matter is the most highly classified subject in the US Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb.

    British Ministry of Defense, Nick Pope

    I was posted to a division called Secretariat Air Staff. My duties there were to research and investigate the UFO phenomenon for the UK government. There have been a steady stream of good-quality cases which I think would convince any open-minded observer who actually looked at the data, that there was something here which went significantly farther than just lights in the sky. I've made no secret of the fact that I believe some of these UFOs may well be of extraterrestrial origin.

    Defense Intelligence Agency, Military Intelligence Analyst, John Maynard

    I said, "Now this is supposed to be a system that tracks radar anomalies on Earth, right?" He says, "Yep, that's what it does." So I ask, "Then why are half of them pointed toward outer space, towards the moon, towards areas that are just blank space? What are they looking for?" He says, "You've got to have a need to know to know about that." ... We go back to a comment made by one of the astronauts when he stepped on the moon. It was the day after they got there. And he says, "You're right, they're already here." It got out on the airwaves. I know several people who recorded it. It was quickly taken out of all tapes that were public broadcast.

    Roswell Army Air Base Public Information Officer, Lieutenant Walter Haut

    The story I put out was very simple. We had in our possession a flying saucer. It was found on a ranch up north of Roswell. It was being flown to General Ramey's office. The information was given to me, almost verbatim, by Colonel Blanchard. He said, "I want you to give it to the local newspapers and radio stations, and do it post haste".…The cover-up was pretty well orchestrated. I think the thought of handling it that way came down from Washington, through channels. We were told that we were all wrong, that it was just a weather balloon.

    US Air Force, Atomic Energy Commission, Colonel Ross Dedrickson

    We were getting reports of visits by UFOs over the storage facilities and even some of the manufacturing facilities. That went on continuously. We found that formal reports were few and far between. Security people were reluctant to report because of the protocol and the bureaucracy involved in reporting them. ... I learned about incidents involving nuclear weapons. Among these incidents were those where a couple of nuclear weapons that were sent into space were destroyed by the extraterrestrials. There was one incident when we exploded a nuclear weapon over the Pacific in '61, I believe. This was one that the extraterrestrials were really concerned about because it affected our ionosphere. In either the very end of the ‘70s or the early ‘80s, we attempted to put a nuclear weapon on the moon and explode it for scientific measurements. [This] was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials. They destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. The idea of any explosion of a nuclear weapon in space by any Earth
    government was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials. That has been demonstrated over and over.

    US Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown

    We had objects with four-way confirmation – ground visual, ground radar, airborne visual, airborne radar. It doesn't get any better than that! In my following of unusual aerial phenomena for the past 50 years, there seems to be some reason to discredit very viable and very reputable witnesses when they say something is unidentified. ... By humidifying air, I was getting 20 to 30% improvement in efficiency over a car engine. I started selling these devices. The Federal Trade Commission performed an illegal act. I lost my vehicle, about $100,000 worth of equipment, and a test vehicle was stolen. So in three weeks, psychologically I was wiped out.
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

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  5. #57
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    All that shows is that people saw Unidentified Flying Objects.

    Key word being unidentified.

    In either the very end of the ‘70s or the early ‘80s, we attempted to put a nuclear weapon on the moon and explode it for scientific measurements. [This] was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials. They destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. The idea of any explosion of a nuclear weapon in space by any Earth
    A bold statement without any merit. However, there was project A119 in the late 50s. Alas, that also never happened.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    US Navy, National Security Agency, James Kopf

    The UFO incident occurred on the USS John F. Kennedy in the summer of 1971. We observed a large, glowing sphere over the ship. It looked huge. I would say it was anywhere from three or four hundred feet to a quarter of a mile depending on how high it was. A few days later, the Commanding Officer looked at the camera – and I will never forget this – and he said, "I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major combat vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know."

    Canadian Transport Department, Senior Radio Engineer, Wilbur Smith

    Flying saucers exist. The matter is the most highly classified subject in the US Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb.

    British Ministry of Defense, Nick Pope

    I was posted to a division called Secretariat Air Staff. My duties there were to research and investigate the UFO phenomenon for the UK government. There have been a steady stream of good-quality cases which I think would convince any open-minded observer who actually looked at the data, that there was something here which went significantly farther than just lights in the sky. I've made no secret of the fact that I believe some of these UFOs may well be of extraterrestrial origin.

    Defense Intelligence Agency, Military Intelligence Analyst, John Maynard

    I said, "Now this is supposed to be a system that tracks radar anomalies on Earth, right?" He says, "Yep, that's what it does." So I ask, "Then why are half of them pointed toward outer space, towards the moon, towards areas that are just blank space? What are they looking for?" He says, "You've got to have a need to know to know about that." ... We go back to a comment made by one of the astronauts when he stepped on the moon. It was the day after they got there. And he says, "You're right, they're already here." It got out on the airwaves. I know several people who recorded it. It was quickly taken out of all tapes that were public broadcast.

    Roswell Army Air Base Public Information Officer, Lieutenant Walter Haut

    The story I put out was very simple. We had in our possession a flying saucer. It was found on a ranch up north of Roswell. It was being flown to General Ramey's office. The information was given to me, almost verbatim, by Colonel Blanchard. He said, "I want you to give it to the local newspapers and radio stations, and do it post haste".…The cover-up was pretty well orchestrated. I think the thought of handling it that way came down from Washington, through channels. We were told that we were all wrong, that it was just a weather balloon.

    US Air Force, Atomic Energy Commission, Colonel Ross Dedrickson

    We were getting reports of visits by UFOs over the storage facilities and even some of the manufacturing facilities. That went on continuously. We found that formal reports were few and far between. Security people were reluctant to report because of the protocol and the bureaucracy involved in reporting them. ... I learned about incidents involving nuclear weapons. Among these incidents were those where a couple of nuclear weapons that were sent into space were destroyed by the extraterrestrials. There was one incident when we exploded a nuclear weapon over the Pacific in '61, I believe. This was one that the extraterrestrials were really concerned about because it affected our ionosphere. In either the very end of the ‘70s or the early ‘80s, we attempted to put a nuclear weapon on the moon and explode it for scientific measurements. [This] was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials. They destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. The idea of any explosion of a nuclear weapon in space by any Earth
    government was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials. That has been demonstrated over and over.

    US Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown

    We had objects with four-way confirmation – ground visual, ground radar, airborne visual, airborne radar. It doesn't get any better than that! In my following of unusual aerial phenomena for the past 50 years, there seems to be some reason to discredit very viable and very reputable witnesses when they say something is unidentified. ... By humidifying air, I was getting 20 to 30% improvement in efficiency over a car engine. I started selling these devices. The Federal Trade Commission performed an illegal act. I lost my vehicle, about $100,000 worth of equipment, and a test vehicle was stolen. So in three weeks, psychologically I was wiped out.
    Not pickin' on you Whip, however: The Military is a toy/tool of govt interests... they are REQUIRED to follow the orders of congress and POTUS. Ever wonder if they would be used to spoof the public to cover something?

    Imagine with me for a minute: Govt wants to hide something... what better way than to get a segment of the population all google-eyed (no reference to the search engine) over something that does not exist. Imagine how EASY to manipulate those folks... (whoops...)
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  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Erect straw men much?

    Wiki is a resource. I'm well schooled in, say, WWII history for example. I still use Wiki to grab a date and things like that now and then. What you have done here is another logical fallacy (you seem to be full of them) called Ad Hominem where, lacking an actual reply to the point made, you instead attack the source (as if that settles things).

    How about this? Actually tackle what I said. Show us that the word "allegedly" was improperly used by Wiki.

    I say there is no HARD evidence. Same tune the entire topic long, and over multiple replies you have yet to demonstrate that statement to be wrong.

    But, please do continue to flap in the breeze... it's most entertaining.
    I am simply countering your positions that I believe to be false such as:
    That you have looked into the UFO phenomenon beyond a book or two.
    That Von Daniken is unscientific.
    That man has never held hard evidence in his hands.
    That our military does not posses this same hard evidence.
    That our military would tell us all they know on the subject if it was beyond black operations.
    That your interest in WWII and this subject has even made you aware of the Foo Fighters incidents.

    Question: If you witnessed a murder right in front of you yet authorities quickly came and removed all evidence and they were above being questioned on the event would you say there was no crime committed and no investigation is warranted?

  8. #60
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    Let me put it this way. If I were abducted by aliens tonight, unless I was able to retrieve something that shows it, there would still be no hard evidence.

    Another reply by you, another failure in showing hard evidence. You speak of it but don't show it.

    Still waiting.

    Also, since all science begins with a fact that needs explanation, please show the one that Von Daniken started with. Also, show how his method of research leads us to an experiment or test that is repeatable, and demonstrates his theories to be true.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  9. #61
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    If our government says it never happened, surly they must be right. All of us know that our government would never conceal, lie, or manipulate the truth in anyway.

    Just like MK Ultra never happened right?

    and Operation Northwoods

    and Operation Ajax

    and CIA drug smuggling

    and Operation Paperclip

    and we dont manipulate currency values

    and Operation PBSUCCESS

    and the secret bombing of Cambodia

    and secret CIA prisons

    and the Gulf of Tonkin

    and the attack on the USS Liberty

    etc. etc.



    Your government would never intentionally lie or mislead you now would they?
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  10. #62
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    There is far more conclusive evidence as to the existence of extra terrestrials than there is of Jesus Christ, yet many folks have no problem believing in him.

    Splain! Wheres the science?

    People will trust an Economist, but they do not trust a fortune teller.

    Splain! Account for this science!

    Banks have chains on their pens, but leave the vault door open.

    Splain! What science does this involve?
    Last edited by coolwhip; 08-29-2012 at 10:51 AM.
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Let me put it this way. If I were abducted by aliens tonight, unless I was able to retrieve something that shows it, there would still be no hard evidence.
    That wasn’t my question. Would you be convinced that something unexplainable and beyond our technology happened?

    Also, since all science begins with a fact…
    Not so. All science begins with a hypothesis.

  12. #64
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    Scrog is assuming there isn't hard evidence because a UFO has never hit him in the arss or because our government hasn't revealed the truth to the American people.

    Scrog was one of those guys that put Galileo in prison.
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    That wasn’t my question. Would you be convinced that something unexplainable and beyond our technology happened?
    Hmm. The room became very quiet.

    Hint: It is a yes or no answer.

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