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  1. #14
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    If God exists, then God rules the heavens, and Satan rules the earth. Terror. We’re born of evil. As little kids what’s the word we always hear? No. We always hear no. “No, don’t do that. Don’t do this. No. No. No. Don’t.” This is because most of the human species is evil. We’re born of Satan, of Earth. Some get it a lot quicker. Some don’t get it at all: namely, those who commit crimes, murderers, and rapists. They do not get anything, and yet these are the people who will never convert. Darkness reigns.
    I wanted to adress this part of Jose's tirade only because this sort of thing repeatedly comes up.

    Please allow me to quite pointedly disagree. Mankind is not born of evil. Instead, they are not born with adult brains.

    How this leads to man being inherently evil is something of a puzzle. It's as if to say that "good" is not a natural state of man.

    Hogwash.

    We are not alone in the animal world with regards to teaching our young. As a matter of fact, several species of birds need to teach thier young how to fly. Can anyone seriously suggest that fact leads us to conclude that flying is not a natural state for birds?

    This is one of those old and tired tropes which needs to go away. It's plainly silly, and anyone who gives it a moment's thought can see that to be the case.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  2. #15
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    Jan 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    IMO, the Bible contains many references to the fact that we may have been visited by alien beings of some sort such as Ezekiel's vision and The Nephilim.
    Most if not all descriptions of people and things in the bible are not to be taken literally. They are descriptions of someones character or of their spiritual state. Colors in the bible are also not meant to be taken literally...... they are all used in a spiritual context.

    Look at the description of Jesus in Revelation...... 7 stars on his hands, feet of brass....a sword sticking out of his mouth..... all those have meaning.....and to interpret the meaning of a lot of the bible you have to know something about the way society was back then.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    That's right, no need to use technology when he simply spoke the universe into existence.
    Then why did God use a metal craft to take Ezekiel into the heavens?

    If God was using metal crafts then, He is using metal crafts now.

  4. #17
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    The Bible is a metaphorical construct subject to interpretation. No two people, even of the same denomination can agree with one another on its meanings.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Perhaps it is because the one and true God is that much more supreme than his creation. He is outside of the creation he spoke into existance. That's right, no need to use technology when he simply spoke the universe into existance.
    And how do you know which is the one true God, the reason you believe the one you believe is the true God was not of your choice, you were born in to that believe. If you were born in to an islamic family, would you still believe the same ??

    Social man is always going to believe in what situation it was brought up in to, and seldom changes those believes, due to social pressures. The powers that want to control take atvantage of those pressures, cause its in their best interest, and in some way provide social harmoney albeit with a price.

    This world will never be peacefull untill we get rid of all religions, and institute harmoney and love to all, isnt that exactly what Jesus was attempting to tell us. I'm sorry to say that those institutiion failed us miserably.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    And how do you know which is the one true God, the reason you believe the one you believe is the true God was not of your choice, you were born in to that believe. If you were born in to an islamic family, would you still believe the same ??

    Social man is always going to believe in what situation it was brought up in to, and seldom changes those believes, due to social pressures. The powers that want to control take atvantage of those pressures, cause its in their best interest, and in some way provide social harmoney albeit with a price.

    This world will never be peacefull untill we get rid of all religions, and institute harmoney and love to all, isnt that exactly what Jesus was attempting to tell us. I'm sorry to say that those institutiion failed us miserably.

    Roy
    This is the the conundrum of religion. The nature of faith is not that of reason. Its a real hindrance to mankind
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  7. #20
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    Yes, the different interpretation excuse.....

    Look Doodle...... ezekiels vision is a description of the glory and almighty power of god....... its not a ufo and has nothing to do with little green men.

    The nephilim were just bad people....... thats all...... not 9 feet tall giants..... not fallen angels......... just bad people.

    Plenty of study has been done on the bible by actual scholarly people....... you would be better off reading their works than some uneducated peyote smoking sci fi writer.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Yes, the different interpretation excuse.....

    Look Doodle...... ezekiels vision is a description of the glory and almighty power of god....... its not a ufo and has nothing to do with little green men.

    The nephilim were just bad people....... that’s all...... not 9 feet tall giants..... not fallen angels......... just bad people.

    Plenty of study has been done on the bible by actual scholarly people....... you would be better off reading their works than some uneducated peyote smoking sci fi writer.
    If those people could not even accurately record an account of a man being taken up into the sky then none of their recordings and interpretations can be trusted.

    You probably do not like to see people knock the Bible unless they have read it. Well, you shouldn’t knock UFO’s unless you have studied the phenomenon. Do you even know of the “Phoenix Lights” event? It is the largest current mass sighting witnessed by about ten thousand residents including the Governor. It spurred over three hundred 911 calls all describing the exact same silent, huge, slow moving craft.

    Please name just one “scholarly” person that has thoroughly investigated UFO’s and discounts them.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    If those people could not even accurately record an account of a man being taken up into the sky then none of their recordings and interpretations can be trusted.

    You probably do not like to see people knock the Bible unless they have read it. Well, you shouldn’t knock UFO’s unless you have studied the phenomenon. Do you even know of the “Phoenix Lights” event? It is the largest current mass sighting witnessed by about ten thousand residents including the Governor. It spurred over three hundred 911 calls all describing the exact same silent, huge, slow moving craft.

    Please name just one “scholarly” person that has thoroughly investigated UFO’s and discounts them.
    Flares
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Flares
    That is a feeble explanation for what happened at 10:00pm. What did the multitude of witnesses see at about 8:30pm spanning nearly the entire length of Arizona?

    And, who is the “scholarly” person that has investigated UFO’s and poo poos them?

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    That is a feeble explanation for what happened at 10:00pm. What did the multitude of witnesses see at about 8:30pm spanning nearly the entire length of Arizona?

    And, who is the “scholarly” person that has investigated UFO’s and poo poos them?
    No one poo poos UFOs themselves. Only the idea that they are some specific thing like aliens.

    It all boils down to this; there is no hard evidence that alien life, sasquatch, the lockness monster, or anything of the kind actually exists.

    Fuzzy photos and movies are junk. Sighting reports are junk in terms of determining what they are.

    Here is what hard evidence is; the remains of one of the creatures in question. A skull, a piece of unknown technology.

    We don't need the name of individuals. What we need is for you to have paid attention when just about the entire scientific community has commented on "UFOlogy" as "pseudo-science". Not once but several times.

    The issue from a scientific perspective is not that methodology is poor, per se, but more that the assumptions made are untested and highly speculative.

    But if you really must go there; here ya go "Astronomer Carl Sagan stated on UFO sightings, "The reliable cases are uninteresting and the interesting cases are unreliable. Unfortunately there are no cases that are both reliable and interesting""
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    No one poo poos UFOs themselves. Only the idea that they are some specific thing like aliens.

    It all boils down to this; there is no hard evidence that alien life, sasquatch, the lockness monster, or anything of the kind actually exists.

    Fuzzy photos and movies are junk. Sighting reports are junk in terms of determining what they are.

    Here is what hard evidence is; the remains of one of the creatures in question. A skull, a piece of unknown technology.

    We don't need the name of individuals. What we need is for you to have paid attention when just about the entire scientific community has commented on "UFOlogy" as "pseudo-science". Not once but several times.

    The issue from a scientific perspective is not that methodology is poor, per se, but more that the assumptions made are untested and highly speculative.

    But if you really must go there; here ya go "Astronomer Carl Sagan stated on UFO sightings, "The reliable cases are uninteresting and the interesting cases are unreliable. Unfortunately there are no cases that are both reliable and interesting""
    Scientists are never interested in something they cannot get their hands on. It has no effect on the high probability in them being real metallic craft.

  13. #26
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    Scientists are never interested in something they cannot get their hands on.
    Yes! That's PRECISELY The point!

    Facts are not about what someone thinks is plausible or probable. Sorry.

    Lack of hard evidence does certainly affect probablity from a scientific standpoint.

    ... and SETI continues to be a study WITHOUT A SUBJECT.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

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