JCI/Metasys System N2

[apprentice3]

I am getting ready to obtain a building that has a JCI/metasys N2 system. I was wondering what all does my company need to manage this job? There are some current programming issues that JCI cannot get resolved that somehow we are going to need to get resolved. What software do we need to reprogram certain sequences for the AHUs? What all can the end user software do? Is it locked down pretty tight?

Thanks!

[KnewYork]

Contact your local Automated Logic dealer and put in a front end you can maintain yourself.

http://www.automatedlogic.com/

[berg2666]

And your automated logic front end is going to be able to program JCI N2 devices? I am very interested in how you will do that I may be interested in using the product...

[berg2666]

I am getting ready to obtain a building that has a JCI/metasys N2 system. I was wondering what all does my company need to manage this job? There are some current programming issues that JCI cannot get resolved that somehow we are going to need to get resolved. What software do we need to reprogram certain sequences for the AHUs? What all can the end user software do? Is it locked down pretty tight?

Thanks!

Need to be more specific abou the field devices. DX9100 uses GX9100 to program them, UNT, VAV, VMA etc use HVACpro to porgram them,

[alcomech]

How old is this system? Is there a front end in place or will you be connecting to a Facilitator or N30 supervisory type controller. There are times when you will connect directly to each controller through the use of a interface.
Such as:
AS-CVTPRO300-1 and AS-CVTPRO400-1
Zone Bus/N2 Bus Interface

For additional information on CVTPRO Converter compatibility with computers, operating systems, software, controllers and
tools, refer to the AS-CVTPRO300-1 and AS-CVTPRO400-1 Zone Bus/N2 Bus Interface Converters Installation Instructions
(Part No. 24-10158-0) and Auxiliary GearTechnical Bulletin (LIT-6363080).

[alcomech]

6363080 rev.PDF

[alcomech]

Check this out for auxiliary gear

6363080 rev.PDF

[apprentice3]

Check this out for auxiliary gear

6363080 rev.PDF

Thanks everyone.. I will be going back to the job this week. I will get some information off of the controllers. This is the one system that I have not ran into often. So I do not know all of the controls and terminolgy yet. So is it possible for a controls company not linked to JCI to get the necessary software to program these jobs?

By reading the attached manual it seems that I may have to get a converter. What software do I need to use with that converter? HvacPro? Where can I get these JCI tools/Software?

[dunkman]

All I've ever done with these systems is connect with hyperterminal through the N30 to manage settings, check sensors, etc. I wouldn't mind knowing how to fix program issues on the UNT controllers.

[berg2666]

Try ths S Squared USB N2 bus adapter You will be surprised how many JCI personnel use the s squared box over the cvt 300...
You will have to find the MTools Software from somewere. I can bet you could try Ebay or even some of the online hvac suppliers...

[ncboston]

I picked up my cvt on gov deals ( government auction site). I've also seen them on ebay.

[apprentice3]

I will have a controller list by tomorrow, but I was wondering if this M-tools software would cover most of the controllers on the market? It says the M-tools software comes with a computer based training program. How good is that? As far as converters go will this converter (see the attached web link) communicate to most of the JCI controllers out there?

http://www.s2innovations.com/s2usb485-interface

[berg2666]

Yes that box will communicate across the n2 bus to N2 devices. We are more interested in the N2 device list to help you with your questions about programming the n2 devices. Spend the 275 and buy the s2 box...

[rikenz]

yes, HVAC pro and the s2 box is what I use. I bit of a learning curve but a nice system once it sinks in. RSD Total control on the West Coast offers classes, 3-4 day cram session. You could look around out your way for Metasys and HVACpro training if you don't have a background in controls.... When you are looking to upgrade the system I would install a Tridium Niagara Jace with an N2 driver, in the Johnson world this would be an FX60 or 70. This will let you pull all the points into the new Tridium box and have an up to date user interface without changing out all the field controls (VMA's and UNT's) as the Metasys software is a bit "clunky" by today's standards. Message me privately if you need more information.

[apprentice3]

yes, HVAC pro and the s2 box is what I use. I bit of a learning curve but a nice system once it sinks in. RSD Total control on the West Coast offers classes, 3-4 day cram session. You could look around out your way for Metasys and HVACpro training if you don't have a background in controls.... When you are looking to upgrade the system I would install a Tridium Niagara Jace with an N2 driver, in the Johnson world this would be an FX60 or 70. This will let you pull all the points into the new Tridium box and have an up to date user interface without changing out all the field controls (VMA's and UNT's) as the Metasys software is a bit "clunky" by today's standards. Message me privately if you need more information.

I have more of a service controls background. I have worked on a lot of different systems out there. I have only done some mild programming. I usually catch on pretty quick once I get going though. So I think some sort of training would be good. I have thought about upgrading this system to a Tridium system. My company hasn't got into Tridium yet, but I have been on them for a few years now letting them know how big of a player Tridium is in the controls market. They are strongly considering sending a few of there programmers, and myself to AX training. I agree this would definitely be the best solution to the problem. On this job there is some pretty custom logic that the JCI system doesn't contain that I would have to put into the Tridium. Do they have a lot of different programming blocks for most applications?

[steves4]

I have more of a service controls background. I have worked on a lot of different systems out there. I have only done some mild programming. I usually catch on pretty quick once I get going though. So I think some sort of training would be good. I have thought about upgrading this system to a Tridium system. My company hasn't got into Tridium yet, but I have been on them for a few years now letting them know how big of a player Tridium is in the controls market. They are strongly considering sending a few of there programmers, and myself to AX training. I agree this would definitely be the best solution to the problem. On this job there is some pretty custom logic that the JCI system doesn't contain that I would have to put into the Tridium. Do they have a lot of different programming blocks for most applications?

Consider using our S4 Open: BACnet-N2 Router or S4 Open: OPC-N2 Router. These products allow you to salvage all of the N2 field devices and use Tridium, or any other head end that meets your requirements. You can also co-exist with the legacy JCI Metasys head end system for a transition period or as part of your long term solution. See our web site at http://www.thes4group.com or contact me for more details. My contact information is in my profile.

[Cagey57]

OP,
This assumes you will find "Legacy N2" devices; AHU's, VMA's, VAV's, UNT and DX-9100's at the job.

The S4 gizmo is trick, the S2 Converter is pretty slick but I already had the B&B 485SD9TB that connect to a 9pin serial port otherwise I would have bought the S2 box. If you do not have a serial port get the B&B converter and a Digi Edgeport/1 to adapt it to a USB port. Least brain damage in the long run.

The software is MW-MTOOL-0 for a new copy (with the CBT) or for about 1/2 the price you should order the MW-MTOOL-6 (no CBT). The AS-CVTPRO300-1 is very pricey. I recommend one of the 2 converters (S2 or the B&B Electroincs) mentioned above. Your best bet will be to locate your local independant Johnson Controls ABCS dealer to order/purchase the M-Tools Software.

You mentioned "Custom Programming", if it's NOT an NAE you will have to decifer the N30 logic or, if its NCM/PMI you will have to get either the JCB source files or the GPL files. Hopefully off of the existing Workstation.

As mentioned above the FX-60/70 is likely your best solution if you don't have a long term plan.

Good Luck.

[apprentice3]

I called our JCI software provider today to get pricing on everything that is needed for this work, but the converter that they priced up for me is described as a TP/FT-10 USB to LON interface. I don't see that mentioned anywhere in this post. Will that work? If not what will it be used for?

[klrogers]

Not if you have N2 devices, you have never told us exactly what devices you are connecting to.

Kevin

[ncboston]

It sounds like he hasn't even been to the building yet.