JCI/Metasys System N2

[rikenz]

yes, HVAC pro and the s2 box is what I use. I bit of a learning curve but a nice system once it sinks in. RSD Total control on the West Coast offers classes, 3-4 day cram session. You could look around out your way for Metasys and HVACpro training if you don't have a background in controls.... When you are looking to upgrade the system I would install a Tridium Niagara Jace with an N2 driver, in the Johnson world this would be an FX60 or 70. This will let you pull all the points into the new Tridium box and have an up to date user interface without changing out all the field controls (VMA's and UNT's) as the Metasys software is a bit "clunky" by today's standards. Message me privately if you need more information.

[apprentice3]

yes, HVAC pro and the s2 box is what I use. I bit of a learning curve but a nice system once it sinks in. RSD Total control on the West Coast offers classes, 3-4 day cram session. You could look around out your way for Metasys and HVACpro training if you don't have a background in controls.... When you are looking to upgrade the system I would install a Tridium Niagara Jace with an N2 driver, in the Johnson world this would be an FX60 or 70. This will let you pull all the points into the new Tridium box and have an up to date user interface without changing out all the field controls (VMA's and UNT's) as the Metasys software is a bit "clunky" by today's standards. Message me privately if you need more information.

I have more of a service controls background. I have worked on a lot of different systems out there. I have only done some mild programming. I usually catch on pretty quick once I get going though. So I think some sort of training would be good. I have thought about upgrading this system to a Tridium system. My company hasn't got into Tridium yet, but I have been on them for a few years now letting them know how big of a player Tridium is in the controls market. They are strongly considering sending a few of there programmers, and myself to AX training. I agree this would definitely be the best solution to the problem. On this job there is some pretty custom logic that the JCI system doesn't contain that I would have to put into the Tridium. Do they have a lot of different programming blocks for most applications?

[steves4]

I have more of a service controls background. I have worked on a lot of different systems out there. I have only done some mild programming. I usually catch on pretty quick once I get going though. So I think some sort of training would be good. I have thought about upgrading this system to a Tridium system. My company hasn't got into Tridium yet, but I have been on them for a few years now letting them know how big of a player Tridium is in the controls market. They are strongly considering sending a few of there programmers, and myself to AX training. I agree this would definitely be the best solution to the problem. On this job there is some pretty custom logic that the JCI system doesn't contain that I would have to put into the Tridium. Do they have a lot of different programming blocks for most applications?

Consider using our S4 Open: BACnet-N2 Router or S4 Open: OPC-N2 Router. These products allow you to salvage all of the N2 field devices and use Tridium, or any other head end that meets your requirements. You can also co-exist with the legacy JCI Metasys head end system for a transition period or as part of your long term solution. See our web site at http://www.thes4group.com or contact me for more details. My contact information is in my profile.

[Cagey57]

OP,
This assumes you will find "Legacy N2" devices; AHU's, VMA's, VAV's, UNT and DX-9100's at the job.

The S4 gizmo is trick, the S2 Converter is pretty slick but I already had the B&B 485SD9TB that connect to a 9pin serial port otherwise I would have bought the S2 box. If you do not have a serial port get the B&B converter and a Digi Edgeport/1 to adapt it to a USB port. Least brain damage in the long run.

The software is MW-MTOOL-0 for a new copy (with the CBT) or for about 1/2 the price you should order the MW-MTOOL-6 (no CBT). The AS-CVTPRO300-1 is very pricey. I recommend one of the 2 converters (S2 or the B&B Electroincs) mentioned above. Your best bet will be to locate your local independant Johnson Controls ABCS dealer to order/purchase the M-Tools Software.

You mentioned "Custom Programming", if it's NOT an NAE you will have to decifer the N30 logic or, if its NCM/PMI you will have to get either the JCB source files or the GPL files. Hopefully off of the existing Workstation.

As mentioned above the FX-60/70 is likely your best solution if you don't have a long term plan.

Good Luck.

[apprentice3]

I called our JCI software provider today to get pricing on everything that is needed for this work, but the converter that they priced up for me is described as a TP/FT-10 USB to LON interface. I don't see that mentioned anywhere in this post. Will that work? If not what will it be used for?

[klrogers]

Not if you have N2 devices, you have never told us exactly what devices you are connecting to.

Kevin

[ncboston]

It sounds like he hasn't even been to the building yet.

[apprentice3]

Not if you have N2 devices, you have never told us exactly what devices you are connecting to.

Kevin

I will have that list tomorrow. I was tied up all day today on a job. I will let you know. Thanks alot.

[controlgeek]

Once you determine what you need have the customer purchase the tools from JCI since they are the system owner (even if you fund it).

[apprentice3]

I went out to the job site today and found that all of the vavs are on a n2 bus and have a VMA hardware type. The RTUs on this job reside on the LON network. They just use ccn to Lon cards for this. All of this is tied to a NAE55. So what software do I need to have to see the logic inside of the NAE55?

[noskilltech]

So what software do I need to have to see the logic inside of the NAE55?

Internet Explorer and Java.

[noskilltech]

Honestly if I were you, if it is working and you don't currently have any issues with the controls, I would just leave it alone until you have issues at this point.

[apprentice3]

Honestly if I were you, if it is working and you don't currently have any issues with the controls, I would just leave it alone until you have issues at this point.

The thing is they are having issues. Apparently this NAE55 is expected to control the Carrier Z series RTUs through LON. I need to see if there is any logic for certain control sequences that need to be done on these units. Apparently the 3 105 ton Carrier units feed into a common duct. They are having tons of trip outs when the units go unoccupied, and when the lead lag program takes affect. All of the units are controled internally to the maintain duct static pressure. Currently they are all referecing there built in duct static pressure sensor. All three of the sensors are reading different causing the fan speeds to be all over the place. Sometimes one unit will kick on and its fan will only ramp up to like 20 hz, and the unit doesn't have enough airflow for the 1st stage of cooling. Typically on these set ups I have seen the control system sync the fan speeds between the three units in the common ducted system. I need to get into this NAE55 for this reason. Is there a way that I can view the internal logic? I also want to see the logic that is writing the NVIs. Can this be done through internet explorer too? Or do you need some sort of software to see this part? I was on the system through internet explorer today, and I couldn't see anyway to access the internal programming.

Thanks!