ReplyWhy cant to have a chimney company install a liner in the existing chimney ? Is looks like your chimney is outside the home ? A liner would sure help with the draft, and eliminate all mechanical venting.
Regular Guest
I'm looking to replace my boiler and I need some advice. I'm in Toronto, in an older (1940s built) house. My house sits on my neighbour's property line. My current boiler vents up the chimney, but I'd like to move to sidewall venting to reduce potential CO issues.
See pictures (x3): http://imgur.com/a/u0gew
Some contractors told me that the best solution (based on space constraints) is to vent onto/above my neighbour's driveway. But according to CSA B149.1-05 section 8.14.8 "a vent shall not terminate directly above a paved sidewalk or paved driveway that is located between two single-family dwellings and serves both dwellings". Granted, the driveway does not serve BOTH dwellings, but I don't see why it suddenly becomes okay if it just serves one.
My question to you guys: Can I legally vent onto/above my neighbour's driveway? Based on the pictures I provided, do you see a potentially better solution?
Professional Member*
Why cant to have a chimney company install a liner in the existing chimney ? Is looks like your chimney is outside the home ? A liner would sure help with the draft, and eliminate all mechanical venting.
I'll be there when I get there and not a minute later
Professional Member*
If you are abandoning the chimney why not use it as a chase to get the PVC pipes to the roof and terminate there?
Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office
Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas
Professional Member*
X2 done that many times, never have to look at pipes and worry about them freezing.Originally Posted by comfortdoc
Regular Guest
The chimney is part of the home, with an external wall.
I assume you mean direct venting PVC out the chimney? The issue is that my HWT is natural draft vented through the chimney and I can't common vent with the boilers I'm looking at (Slant/Fin VSPH-90, Olsen ODV-75B).
If I get a boiler that is natural draft (example Lennox GWB8-112IE), then I have to seal up the boiler room for an extra couple grand.
Professional Member*
Check with local code enforcement about the regulations of venting over the neighbors driveway. I suspect not, but if it is allowed there will be a minimum height requirement the exhaust will have to be above the driveway. Many considerations here.
When you orphan the water heater, you will need to line the chimney. That money may be better spent on indirect water heater, or direct vent domestic water heater in addition to your boiler.
Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office
Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas
Regular Guest
Thanks. I totally agree regarding calling code enforcement but I did call the TSSA and they told me to review the code with a licensed contractor. That's where I got the snippet in my original post. I also called who I thought were the local inspectors and they claimed not to be able to help me:
http://www.toronto.ca/311/knowledgeb...000032188.html
I'm running around in circles here just trying to get a definite Toronto based answer.
Professional Member*
I questioned this a while back and was told that if any water drips from the pipe and freezes, then someone slips and falls, the homeowner is liable. We found another way to vent the flue so it didn't run near a sidewalk or driveway.
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY!
A DECADE OF DOMINANCE! +3
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Best to combine the water heater with the boiler using indirect ro looking at a wall hung boiler or combi boiler.
Regular Guest
I'm leaning that way now, but I'm still puzzled on how to vent it. I want to maintain sealed combustion, so I'd prefer not to draw air from inside my home.
I'm specifically looking at the Viessmann Vitodens 100. In the venting manual (link below) it states that I can use coaxial venting. It looks like this provides both intake and exhaust. Can I do this through my chimney? Alternatively, is it okay to use both an intake and exhaust PVC pipe through the same chimney flue?
http://www.viessmann.ca/etc/medialib...Venting_ii.pdf
Professional Member*
Understand the chimney becomes a chase for the PVC pipes. If the diameter of coax pipe for the Vitodens will fit in the chase all the way from bottom to top, you should be able to do that. Same with PVC. You will use 2 runs of pipe - one for combustion air and one for venting.
This all still needs to be verified by someone on-site that knows your local codes.
Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office
Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas
Regular Guest
Thanks. I needed to verify that the idea is in the realm of possibility.
Professional Member*
We do a lot of North Atlantic coastal installs and it's not uncommon for us to find installs done by others using side-wall where the strong winds affect inducer issues, even with sealed combustion. We've solved a number of problems that way by venting up an old chimney, all the way to the top with the exhaust. But due to a lack of space for a 2nd vertical pipe, we've opened the chimney base sufficiently to get the combustion air intake into the bottom of the chimney so it pull fresh air down the chimney, around the exhaust PVC. We've never had an issue doing this, solved several wind problems for customers and made a handsome profit in doing so. I personally have installed old HeatMakers and others with concentric pipes and over a long run, it can be a painful ordeal.
If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.
If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!
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You can't vent on the side if it's a zero lot line you need to find another option I would also recommend the chase
Regular Guest
This sounds promising. What is involved in "opening up the chimney base"? i.e.: Do you mean masonry work to increase the width of the chimney (sounds expensive).
Also, have you had any issues with frost forming on the opening of the exhaust? It sounds like your climate would be similar, although a bit warmer, to mine (Toronto, Canada).
Professional Member*
I have installed 2 of those Viessmans and used the chimney to run the intake AND exhaust pipes in. You can vent them with 2-2" system 636 pvc pipes OR use a concentric type venting.
Where are you? Are you done yet? I got ONE more call for you.....
Professional Member*
There is no problem taking the combustion air from the side and running the 3" 636 PVC up the chimney (last time I checked 2" was not allowed in Ontario for this boiler, but they were trying to get it passed). I have done it many times. That said, lots of people will vent out 7 ft above grade in Toronto and because venting can be a bit tough in the city, sometimes it is accepted. I am not advocating it but it has happened and been accepted (not by TSSA but by some local young fitter that is sent out by Enbridge).
Your best bet is the Viessmann 100 with the DHW package vented up the chimney then seal up the chimney, top and bottom.
Stay away from those other boilers you mentioned. They pale in comparison.
Professional Member*
If you do have it installed check the manual for the exhaust temp to make sure the PVC is acceptable product but im doubting it is most installers don't know or don't check
Professional Member*
I don't know about Canada, but in the US we have been using 2" pp to vent the Vitodens 100. The 2" ridged slides right down the chimney no problem. Placing the intake near the driveway shouldn't be a problem (as long as it's above the snow line).
Professional Member*
We are licensed for steam and hot water in Minneapolis and factory trained (BC school) for Viessmann Solar and Vitodens. We also have installed many Viessmann boilers vented to or across the driveway. It is not a public path and rarely used as a sidewalk. The Viessmann makes one of the best concentric (co-axial) vent kits on the market today. The kit may use an existing "B"vent, masonry or new chase with zero clearance to combustibles. The coax also assure sealed combustion and direct -vent with the added advantage of pre-heating the intake combustion air. This has come in handy in high altitude or extreme weather installations. The coax vent is also perfect for side venting through a rim-joist with little chance of frosting or cross-contamination.
Extending a vent beyond the exterior must be done with caution since the water vapor can freeze up the vent if the vent is cooled too long before hitting the open air. I know of know condensing boiler manufacturer that will allow a 7 foot flue extension beyond the envelope...
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