No talking up the positives or anything
No sales pitch at all which I expected some without hard sell
He gave me a ballpark estimate for the Geo
But no mention of what level of effiency for the equipment
What do you think?
Like some have mentioend, for geothermal to be cost effective, you need to be in either a hot & humid or cold climate, not a temperate one like the West coast. You need ot be all electric if your in a cold climate, otherwise, you won;t get a return over natural gas. I saw one installed down the street form me and shook my head a little. THe up front installation costs are so high, that returns are well past 15 year...more than the service life of the equipment. Also, you now need ot compare the effceincy ot newer inverter drive air source heat pumps and factor that in. Yes, there are inverter drive geothermal too, but at some point it's diminishing return. If you are already down to lets say a $300 summer cooling bill and $600 Winter heating bill with a Carrier Greenspeed, you might save another $300/yr with geothermal. But if the increase installation costs even after your fellow tax payers chip in, is lets say even just $5k, you're stil looking at about 16 years for a break-even. Throw a gas furnace into hte mix and now it might be 20 years.
Now on new construction, it's different, sicne you may have easy lot access and equipment already on site for trenching and excavation.
Goethermal has gotten a great reputation for low bills, because it frequently installed on rural new construction, where the home is very well insulated. Even if they just had a basic 13 SEER heat pump, they would still have fairly low bills with dramatically low up front cost and lower maintenance costs.
Similarly, I don't recommend tankless water heaters for most people. They are far more complicated, and unless you have a venting issue, or very high consumption and need or want to go to direct vent, I'm not sure they are worth it.
A couple of random thoughts.
Not everyone has access to natural gas
geothermal is not expensive everywhere
markets do exist where geothermal is mature in the Darwin sense of weeding out the mistake installers
The trick to geothermal is being blessed with living in a region that fits the above
geothermal is not for everyone in every place on the rock, it allways about the economics
I just think him pitching the air to air heat pump was strange
I am in Ohio which I believe from what Ive read is a good area to want to use Geo
I am however in an area that would not be considered leading in technology
I am also an all electric house with all electric discounts which I am losing and my electric bill is steadily going up the past 2 years and will get worse
He didnt even talk up the differences between the different effiency models
I think I need to call another contractor
I am leaning toward a Climatemaster dealer since Climatemaster claims to be able to replace hot water 100% all year round
WaterFurnace can do that
People are strange and busines's are not imune to that. I am a loop contractor, and when I converted my house to geo I called 3 contractors that we had done projects with that were close to my home. 2 of them quoted geo like I asked, the 3rd quoted a high efficency trane air to air????? wtf? I took it to mean 2 things.
1. they thought I could not afford geo?
2. they did not want to do geo at my house?
You have the right answer, find another contractor to bid.
Have another contractor coming monday to give me quotes and actual costs comparisons based on load calculations of my house
Feel much better about this guy doing it the right way he already figured out my sizing was wrong
Looking at 3 options
Air source heat pump with elec backup and solar panel power source
Air source heat pump with propane backup
He's actually going to figure out which way is most cost efficient to install and operate
Keeping fingers crossed
Get a cost comparison done to see if the geo is more cost effective for your area. Some air source are getting really good cop's but there is the defrost cost to add in depending on outdoor ambient temps. Geo has no need to defrost!! And if using well water no need for loop field or holes.
Ive already done the cost comparisons
The geo with propane backup vs all others is the cheapest
Except for electric backup its about $200a year more to run
But its $2000 plus more to install
And my electric rates keep going up so I think in long run its better
Also a side benefit is with installing propane now I can switch to gas stove from electric which I Hate and possible tankless water heater later
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
This is SOP for contractors who have never worked with Geothermal, advertise GEO, show up and/to convince you otherwise.
Why would you assume the ground loop is good. In my experience the ground loop is the biggest problems for fast talking eddies "AAA Advanced Awesome HVAC INC" coupled with aggressive advertising. You also said that the line was collapsed in the upstairs unit. Probably because there is a leak in the ground loop. Those lines dont collapse because they fail, its because of a vacuum put on the ground loop. If the ground loop leaks and cant be fixed by the magic ground loop fix a flat, which you can only buy with pixie dust and is made of unobtanium, YAF. GL i hope you sue their pants off. I hate retards that sell **** they dont understand.
Originally Posted by Goldfinch