My (Expensive) Experience with Geothermal - Page 3
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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    18
    No talking up the positives or anything
    No sales pitch at all which I expected some without hard sell
    He gave me a ballpark estimate for the Geo
    But no mention of what level of effiency for the equipment
    Very strange
    What do you think?

    Thanks
    John

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Like some have mentioend, for geothermal to be cost effective, you need to be in either a hot & humid or cold climate, not a temperate one like the West coast. You need ot be all electric if your in a cold climate, otherwise, you won;t get a return over natural gas. I saw one installed down the street form me and shook my head a little. THe up front installation costs are so high, that returns are well past 15 year...more than the service life of the equipment. Also, you now need ot compare the effceincy ot newer inverter drive air source heat pumps and factor that in. Yes, there are inverter drive geothermal too, but at some point it's diminishing return. If you are already down to lets say a $300 summer cooling bill and $600 Winter heating bill with a Carrier Greenspeed, you might save another $300/yr with geothermal. But if the increase installation costs even after your fellow tax payers chip in, is lets say even just $5k, you're stil looking at about 16 years for a break-even. Throw a gas furnace into hte mix and now it might be 20 years.

    Now on new construction, it's different, sicne you may have easy lot access and equipment already on site for trenching and excavation.

    Goethermal has gotten a great reputation for low bills, because it frequently installed on rural new construction, where the home is very well insulated. Even if they just had a basic 13 SEER heat pump, they would still have fairly low bills with dramatically low up front cost and lower maintenance costs.

    Similarly, I don't recommend tankless water heaters for most people. They are far more complicated, and unless you have a venting issue, or very high consumption and need or want to go to direct vent, I'm not sure they are worth it.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Georgetown Delaware
    Posts
    197
    A couple of random thoughts.

    Not everyone has access to natural gas
    geothermal is not expensive everywhere
    markets do exist where geothermal is mature in the Darwin sense of weeding out the mistake installers

    The trick to geothermal is being blessed with living in a region that fits the above

    geothermal is not for everyone in every place on the rock, it allways about the economics

    Eric
    Eric Sackett
    weberwelldrilling.com
    Delta P= 8 ATA
    www.youtube.com/weberwelldrilling

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    18
    I just think him pitching the air to air heat pump was strange
    I am in Ohio which I believe from what Ive read is a good area to want to use Geo
    I am however in an area that would not be considered leading in technology
    I am also an all electric house with all electric discounts which I am losing and my electric bill is steadily going up the past 2 years and will get worse

    He didnt even talk up the differences between the different effiency models
    Very strange

    I think I need to call another contractor
    I am leaning toward a Climatemaster dealer since Climatemaster claims to be able to replace hot water 100% all year round
    WaterFurnace can do that

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Georgetown Delaware
    Posts
    197
    People are strange and busines's are not imune to that. I am a loop contractor, and when I converted my house to geo I called 3 contractors that we had done projects with that were close to my home. 2 of them quoted geo like I asked, the 3rd quoted a high efficency trane air to air????? wtf? I took it to mean 2 things.

    1. they thought I could not afford geo?
    2. they did not want to do geo at my house?

    You have the right answer, find another contractor to bid.
    Eric
    Eric Sackett
    weberwelldrilling.com
    Delta P= 8 ATA
    www.youtube.com/weberwelldrilling

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    18
    Have another contractor coming monday to give me quotes and actual costs comparisons based on load calculations of my house
    Feel much better about this guy doing it the right way he already figured out my sizing was wrong

    Looking at 3 options

    Geo
    Air source heat pump with elec backup and solar panel power source
    Air source heat pump with propane backup

    He's actually going to figure out which way is most cost efficient to install and operate
    Keeping fingers crossed

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kingston , Ontario
    Posts
    155
    Get a cost comparison done to see if the geo is more cost effective for your area. Some air source are getting really good cop's but there is the defrost cost to add in depending on outdoor ambient temps. Geo has no need to defrost!! And if using well water no need for loop field or holes.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    18
    Ive already done the cost comparisons

    The geo with propane backup vs all others is the cheapest
    Except for electric backup its about $200a year more to run
    But its $2000 plus more to install
    And my electric rates keep going up so I think in long run its better

    Also a side benefit is with installing propane now I can switch to gas stove from electric which I Hate and possible tankless water heater later

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Jose California
    Posts
    166
    amazing
    Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.

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