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  1. #105
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824
    17 cfm.....hmmmmmm
    Always here

  2. #106
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Are we no longer concerned with the high pressure switch tripping?
    Not too concerned right now. The condenser coil corrosion likely raises head pressure close to the "tripping" point, which is one reason I'm looking into replacement options; the other reason is energy cost.

    I believe the "tripping" is in remission for the time being, so long as I use the less restrictive filters. If it trips again and needs to be fixed, my home warranty will get a workout as it did when the TXV failed in Jan 2010 and when it stopped cooling in Jul 2012 due to the corroded, leaking accumulator. If they have to fix it again before I commit to a replacement, maybe they'll condemn the unit and give me at least a little money toward the replacement.

    In the meantime, I do intend to ask one of this forum's pro's, recently added to the contractor map in my area, to come by and do PM (for a fee, of course) and give me an estimate on replacement.

  3. #107
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Measuring current ESP will help you understand if that increase represents no, little, or catastrophic design flaw. If the 3.5 ton fan is set at 1400 cfm, and has .5 static or above, don't go up on equipment without duct redesign and replacement.
    I've emailed a forum pro that was just recently added to the contractor map in my area and, hopefully, he'll be able to help me determine ESP, among other things.

    Just for kicks, I logged on to the load calc demo that you posted a link for in another thread earlier today. Thanks for that link! I went through step by step and entered actual, accurate measurements, including ACH and duct leakage data from earlier testing done by a potential bidder, along with the upgraded ceiling insulation. I carefully deleted basement/crawl space data and entered the actual perimeter measurements for the foundation.

    First pass computed a 5.25 ton requirement, which I knew was wrong. When I re-verified the data, I realized I'd failed to identify the % of my windows that I leave shaded (blinds drawn) during the daytime. Once that was computed and corrected, the recommendation was 3.57 ton. Cooling load was 32,149 Btuh sensible and 4,251 Btuh latent. This is right inline with both Manual J load calcs done by two potential bidders on my new equipment, neither of which are still in the picture.

    This has me again leaning away from down-sizing to 3 ton, unless it's the iQ Drive. My gut now tells me to stick with a 3.5 ton single stage SEER 15 and never mind the bells and whistles of the more expensive equipment.

  4. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,763
    Glad you are getting esp, that will connect a lot. Maybe the 4t 2 stage will work.

    Don't forget to true to actual energy consumption, and derate equipment efficiency for age, and derate further if static is high.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  5. #109
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Glad you are getting esp, that will connect a lot. Maybe the 4t 2 stage will work.
    Well, finding someone to measure esp may not be so easy. I called the one contractor on the "contractor map" for my area. Since he's a one-man shop and "too small" to invest in all the extra equipment that's "not required" by code, PM includes the standard pressure measurements, voltage readings, sub-cooling and the like, but not esp.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Don't forget to true to actual energy consumption, and derate equipment efficiency for age, and derate further if static is high.
    I don't see any provision for that in the online "Auditor" program, so how would I do that?

  6. #110
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    17 cfm.....hmmmmmm
    Found the leak in the unfinished return cavity. The HVAC guy who "repaired" the duct leaks identified by the FPL blower door test would have had to "look up" to see it. It was probably easier to just put ductboard on the bottom and sides of the cavity and call it done, so he wouldn't have to twist his neck or lie on his back and "look up" to see this rather sizeable hole.
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    I wonder if they'll come back and do it right if I complain to FPL about one of their PIC list contractors doing substandard work?

  7. #111
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Well, finding someone to measure esp may not be so easy. I called the one contractor on the "contractor map" for my area. Since he's a one-man shop and "too small" to invest in all the extra equipment that's "not required" by code, PM includes the standard pressure measurements, voltage readings, sub-cooling and the like, but not esp.



    I don't see any provision for that in the online "Auditor" program, so how would I do that?
    They dont have manometers??
    http://meiersupply.com/TechSpeak/Tec...0%20Issue2.pdf

    use the "sliders" - may look a little different on current version but it's a critical piece of what makes the software so useful.

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    And talking about Duct Leakage, this was in a crawl space that was significantly more connected to outside than inside...

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    Not a fun space

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    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  8. #112
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    They said no. I wonder why not. It seems to me it would be required as part of the process of properly setting up a new air handler. I hope I don't sound too picky, but when I get his bid, I need to ask how he'll verify CFM settings without one. I think I know the answer though... "experience", and if need be, he'll "tweak" it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    use the "sliders" - may look a little different on current version but it's a critical piece of what makes the software so useful.

    Name:  BETA - Google Chrome 1082012 115107 PM.bmp.jpg
Views: 105
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    Perhaps this cost data is included with the full version, but it's not in the demo.

  9. #113
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    They said no. I wonder why not. It seems to me it would be required as part of the process of properly setting up a new air handler. I hope I don't sound too picky, but when I get his bid, I need to ask how he'll verify CFM settings without one. I think I know the answer though... "experience", and if need be, he'll "tweak" it.
    TELL HIM WITHOUT A COMPLETE SET-UP, based on Your Vast Bill Paying Experience, that it would be appropriate to ' tweak' his invoice with a 30% self_ imposed D U C T DisCoUnT that was in your contract find fine print.

    Experience Pays _
    _____________ but just 'so much'.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #114
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    It seems to me a manometer would be required as part of the process of properly setting up a new air handler.
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    TELL HIM WITHOUT A COMPLETE SET-UP, based on Your Vast Bill Paying Experience, that it would be appropriate to ' tweak' his invoice with a 30% self_ imposed D U C T DisCoUnT that was in your contract find fine print.

    Experience Pays _
    _____________ but just 'so much'.
    So do all ya'll techs in this forum use a manometer during setup? Is my guy a hack if he doesn't? Or do you have another tool in your toolbox to verify ESP and setup the airflow on a new air handler?

    I'm still learning how to pick that "special" pro that I want for my install.

  11. #115
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    So do all ya'll techs in this forum use a manometer during setup? Is my guy a hack if he doesn't? Or do you have another tool in your toolbox to verify ESP and setup the airflow on a new air handler?

    I'm still learning how to pick that "special" pro that I want for my install.
    I wouldnt say "hack" but it is definately a sign that he is not getting scientific with his installs.

    There are some other ways to measure airflow but a mamometer is the basic way to do it. Other instruments 10x the cost.

  12. #116
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    7,745
    Some of the owner's of companies don't want you to spend any extra time setting up the equipment, just want to get the check and get out the door, if the customer calls back then they go through the sequence of setting everything up properly. Kinda bass ackwards if you ask me but you can't blame a tech for being a hack if he's just doing what his boss says. All HVAC guys should have a manometer, how would they check gas pressure without one?

  13. #117
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    Some of the owner's of companies don't want you to spend any extra time setting up the equipment, just want to get the check and get out the door, if the customer calls back then they go through the sequence of setting everything up properly. Kinda bass ackwards if you ask me but you can't blame a tech for being a hack if he's just doing what his boss says. All HVAC guys should have a manometer, how would they check gas pressure without one?
    A little concerned now... this guy's the "owner" of a one man shop who said he has a tech who "helps" with installs.... when he shows up for work! We had a good long visit when he came out to get info for a Man J in preparation for his quote. He had a lot of good (I think) ideas regarding install options and tweaking ductwork, and he seemed really caring and knowledgeable. Nothing but A ratings on Angie's list, too. I expect his proposal soon and will ask again about manometer usage during the install.

    Can't seem to catch a break in finding that one totally comforting, technically capable, contractor.

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