How do you get a builder to listen when you tell him that unit is way to big

[mb20fan]

I`m doing a install job for a builder who thinks he knows it all.Have a 1000.sq/ft home all open 1 bed 1 bath.He ask`s me to tell him what size equipment to get.So I go out there look it over they want 90% furnace.They have plans to finish attic into living space no time soon.If they do it will only add maybe 400sq/ft at most.Anyway I tell him 80,000 btu furnace 2 ton A/C should be fine for house now.House is on a slab with downflow unit in very tight space like always.So this dumb ass brings me 31/2 ton air and 100,000 furnace.Now it`s way to big for the home I tell him that`s not going to work well for this small home. It`s even to big after they do upstairs if they ever do.He say`s i`m paying you and for the equipment so just put it in it will be fine.Guess what home owner is not happy it`s like a hurricane when the blower comes on.It`s not cooling right the charge is right on per superheat.It`s fun to say I told you so but now he think`s it`s the install job.I told him it does not even matter if it`s a good or bad job it`s to f`n big for the home what part of that don`t you get.When you read a blue print for a home and it calls for a 2 by 6 do you put in a 2 by 8 and say why won`t this work.

[ComfortablyNumb]

So you went ahead and installed the system regardless... Well that's where you made a mistake. When he was telling you "I'm paying you to install it blah blah blah" you shouldve said you're doing the job right or walking away. I understand nobody wants to turn down work these days, but sometimes its necessary when you lead the horse to the water but you just can't make him drink. At this point you can tell him its oversized until you're red in the face and hopefully you convince him. Or until it becomes a legal matter and gets settled that way. Until then, the h/o might believe the contractor that it was a "poor installation" and it could hurt your reputation. Hard telling what exactly to do at this point if he is that close minded about it. Hope you got paid at least. If there's ever a "next time" maybe consider a waiver if someone insists that you install improperly sized equipment. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

[mb20fan]

I did get paid for most of it he`s short a couple hundred.If that's all I loose and the h/o understands.It passed inspection but they told h/o unit`s a little big for sq/ft.

[gelliott2003]

I agree with the mb20fan on this one because all you have is your tools and representation of your work. It always to pays to do it right the first time so you will not have to double work yourself and lose out on another job.

[mb20fan]

This was the 1st install for this builder.I`v done a lot of service work for him and no problems.When I asked him where is the other guy you were using for install`s. He just changed the subject 1st red flag I should have noticed then he said he will get the equipment dropped off from my supplier.2nd red flag turns out it`s Gibson stuff I`v never used Gibson stuff.I was going to pick up Bryant or Arcoair.Might be last install for this guy.

[dlove]

The GC finished the equipment and told him to install it. The OP said this is to big but, he was told to do it. I would have gotten this in writing. but the fact the GC supplied the equipment i see nothing wrong with installing it. We don't know if they have plans to expand, we know they have an upstairs that may or may not be used. the GC should pay to take it out and to install the right one. If i was the homeowner that's what i would ask for. The installer does not hold the warranty either. So its all on the GC.

[mb20fan]

Now the builder want`s to know if I can change the blower motor out.He wants a smaller one that won`t move as much air.I told him no I can`t it won`t work.He said yes it will they do it all the time. When you put a new motor in a unit that`s older and you can`t get the right one.That`s not what we have here the slower motor will not move enough air across the coil.It will freeze up and be even worse.

[gmb]

Never heard of a builder over sizing equipment, under sizing to save a buck, heard that! He must have got a deal on the equipment!

[WhoIsThat?]

Is there no way to modify what he has to make it work?

If no, then say you will do what he says and if it doesn't work he has to pay you $X each time, and $X is a substantial sum to him.
This way he "has a dog in this fight" and he is putting serious money where his mouth is. The more he is convinced he is right, the bigger $X he should agree to, so X gives you a numerical measure of his certainty, or lack of it.

I wouldn't spend any more time trying to reason with him, and some people hang onto their beliefs even more tightly when anybody presents evidence that his or her belief is wrong.

[mb20fan]

This builder is doing the home for a friend of his.They bought the house 1/2 done then it went into foreclosure.The previous owner had a hvac contractor do the duct work.The other hvac guy had his equipment in place.When he never got paid he came and took it all out.Left a hole in floor and a hole in ceiling 1 inch t-stat wire hanging out of wall and ceiling.He might not have been a very good one to start with he left his concentric termination behind.Myself I would not use a concentric but that`s just me.A brand new house how easy is it to make 2 holes for venting.But that`s why he went bigger than the right size it`s a friend of his or was a friend lol

[LKJoel]

Don't know where you are at, i thought your 2T/80 was on the large side! 3.5T/100 is wayyyy overkill! My house is about that size and its 80 years old and my 2stg 60 rarely sees high fire, and I'm in Canada!

Deal with this garbage from builders all the time, usually the equipment is the right size (heat loss required in most new construction) but the builder keeps reducing duct work size

I feel for you, hope it works out

[martyinlincoln]

Yep. The only time my 44K furnace hit high fire was on a 20 below zero morning. Same sized house but 60 years old. New construction shouldn't need anything near that big if they plan on putting doors and windows in the place.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I would not have installed it... however here is a thought:

Next time tell the builder to sign off you warned him, you are NOT responsible, and sign off on a load calc. If the builder will not sign off... then ask him 'Why not?'... and just look at him...

Builder will find a Craig's list guy... you need to do your best or leave your tools in your van.

[dlove]

This builder is doing the home for a friend of his.They bought the house 1/2 done then it went into foreclosure.The previous owner had a hvac contractor do the duct work.The other hvac guy had his equipment in place.When he never got paid he came and took it all out.Left a hole in floor and a hole in ceiling 1 inch t-stat wire hanging out of wall and ceiling.He might not have been a very good one to start with he left his concentric termination behind.Myself I would not use a concentric but that`s just me.A brand new house how easy is it to make 2 holes for venting.But that`s why he went bigger than the right size it`s a friend of his or was a friend lol

been down this road before....you have done enough. Because you know all this, If you continue even getting it in writing you will be liable because you know this isn't right.(will the homeowner sign off as well?).I would say no thanks and walk away. The only way i would do anything for this guy is to do it my way...and start over..save your self the headache...or you will be sorry

[beshvac]

Thread: How do you get a builder to listen when you tell him that unit is way to big

You tell him you will do it for less than the next "bubba ina truck"

[ga-hvac-tech]

Solution... do not work for builders.

I just fired my last GC... (meaning I was working for a few, this is the last one, no more).

They are just too much hassle, and I end up not making enough $$$ to justify the time.

GC guy has an AC out at his house... bad coil. We agreed to a price. I went down there on a SATURDAY to replace the coil... he was gone. The wife says her hubby told her to tell me it should be free because of all the work he gave me (glad she said that BEFORE I did the job). I told her Bill (not his name) and I agreed on a price, that is the price of the job, I gave him a fair discount, and since she is complaining, I need her signature on the work order.

Low and behold, the hubby showed up in about 10 sec (I thought I was told he was gone)... Guy literally cussed me out, called me a MF, told me my parents should have been sterilized, said my Christian faith was phoney, and a host of other things I want to forget (I did record the entire conversation on my iphone, and told him so... should have seen the look on his face when he found out his attitude was documented ).

Told the guy THX for all the work and the good relationship... however it is time for me to quit working downtown with GC's... and only work in the burbs for homeowners.... I make more $$$ there.

Guy started cussing more, I just smiled at him and asked if I could leave. He told me to get the F out of there... so I did...

Are all builders this childish... I hope not. One thing for sure: NO MORE GC's of any flavor for me, especially builders.

[mb20fan]

Yes why do builders think they should get it for free if it`s there own house or one of there employees homes.He`s been calling all day asking me what I`m going to do for him on this job.I talked to him at 8 this morning and told him I`m done over there.I`m also done with you I can`t afford to do work for you dude it`s not working out for me.We are in Mi. near Ann Arbor it`s nice out no need for A/C today.Get on the phone Monday and find a contractor to try to fix the mess your in.I`m kicking myself in the a** for even doing the job.I`m to sore to leave the house at this point.

[just_opinion]

As far as too large unit,
1) did you have it in writing? Or it is you said, he said thing.
2) Does the owner NOW know that the unit is too large ?

[mb20fan]

As far as too large unit,
1) did you have it in writing? Or it is you said, he said thing.
2) Does the owner NOW know that the unit is too large ?

Nothing in writing just the I said he said.
Now the owner know`s it`s to big inspector told them it`s a little on the big side.A little on the big side it`s way on the big side.What I told him was a little on the big side.When I told him 80,000 furnace 2 ton A/C.But they plan to use it for upstairs when it`s liveable

[LibertyTree]

I don't work for builders anymore. They are too much of a pain in the a$$ 49 out of 50 times. When I was first starting out I foolishly agreed to do jobs similar to what is being described here (builder supplies the parts and pays you a chumps wage to put it in and is a pain in the a$$ the whole way through.) I don't know your climate but from what you described a 1 1/2 ton AC and a 40k furnace would probably still be too large... An 80k and 2 ton is oversized, a 100k and 3 1/2 ton is completely ridiculous and will be the most uncomfortable system on the block. From now on tell Johnny builder that you're the expert and he needs to shut his dirty pie hole if he wants you to do the work. I like how you told him it was too big and he brushed you off only to come back later and try to bandaid fix his mistake. I'm surprised he didn't blame you when it didn't work right