Trane 60 ton chiller - low flow issues

[cool_tech_llc]

We have looked at a Trane 60 ton chiller that possibly has multiple problems and we are working with the factory maintenance people who think that the low flow issues are due to the chiller barrel tubing being restricted. Are hands are somewhat tied due to the fact that the maintenance people want to do as much as they can do. We asked a lot of questions and made some suggestions and then didn't hear back. Recently I ran into one of the powers that be and he said that "Trane" told them that they could not clean the chiller barrel.
Has anyone ever heard of this? Isn't this a standard tube/shell barrel?
Thanks.

[mikeacman]

If the water is in the shell ...

Good luck if it's that trashed

Just changed an 80 ton barrel last spring that that customer had another company try and clean to no avail...

Not saying it can't be done ,, depends on what's in there ...that will determine what cleaning agent you will need to use

[Tommy knocker]

M#? Barrel can be cleaned. Depending on type of barrel can brush tubes or clean chemically. don't recommend offering any advice to them. If they want to do it themselves let them figure it out themselves. If you tell them how and they jack it up guess who will get blamed.

[KnewYork]

A 60 ton chiller with a flooded evaporator? Model number would prove or disprove. I know York doesn't make anything that small with a flooded evaporator. That tonnage range has always been DX in recent history. I would say cleaning the water side of a DX chiller would be a daunting task knowing how they are constructed. cool_tech_llc, were you on the job? Did you see the chiller? You should be able to tell us if it's DX or flooded.

[Nuclrchiller]

A 60 ton chiller with a flooded evaporator? Model number would prove or disprove. I know York doesn't make anything that small with a flooded evaporator. That tonnage range has always been DX in recent history. I would say cleaning the water side of a DX chiller would be a daunting task knowing how they are constructed. cool_tech_llc, were you on the job? Did you see the chiller? You should be able to tell us if it's DX or flooded.

X2. As far as I can remember, that also applies to Trane.

[cool_tech_llc]

A 60 ton chiller with a flooded evaporator? Model number would prove or disprove. I know York doesn't make anything that small with a flooded evaporator. That tonnage range has always been DX in recent history. I would say cleaning the water side of a DX chiller would be a daunting task knowing how they are constructed. cool_tech_llc, were you on the job? Did you see the chiller? You should be able to tell us if it's DX or flooded.

Sorry, I missed your post. Yes it's DX. didn't find out until today.

[mikeacman]

x1
I'm sure water is in the shell

Again I say good luck with that if it's plugged with trash

[KnewYork]

And yes fouling of the tube can happen real fast when you have hard water. I seen it happen, not enough to restrict flow but enough to effect the approach and load demand.

First of all, the OP didn't even know the evaporator was DX. If you want to hold on to the notion that an evaporator bundle (whether DX or flooded) can foul "real fast" because it doesn't have water treatment, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure what "real fast" is from a quantitative standpoint, but your original statement was a day or week. Is "real fast" more or less than a week?

I am a proponent of fact based decision making. I do not believe you have any quantiative facts to back up your statement with regard to fouling. To shift the focus to performance rather than flow is also not based in fact or the OP's original statements.

[Tommy knocker]

x1
I'm sure water is in the shell

Again I say good luck with that if it's plugged with trash

Or full of mud. Sound familure? Haha

[mikeacman]

That's why I said good luck with that ,,,,

Water treatment people ....there's a whole bunch of people that do that for a living ..

Its not that hard or expensive for a closed loop

[Southern Mech]

Just replaced an evap on a 100 ton rtaa machine. Plant accidentally ran hotwater in the evap and messed up the devision plates, they are plastic. Upon removing the barrel, I noticed how fowled the rig was. The chiller had been running 110% load trying to keep the load, it now runs 75%. Of course now the plant wants to add more equipment to the line... Which equals putting her back against the wall.24/7/365.

[cool_tech_llc]

Just replaced an evap on a 100 ton rtaa machine. Plant accidentally ran hotwater in the evap and messed up the devision plates, they are plastic. Upon removing the barrel, I noticed how fowled the rig was. The chiller had been running 110% load trying to keep the load, it now runs 75%. Of course now the plant wants to add more equipment to the line... Which equals putting her back against the wall.24/7/365.

Give them an inch and they will want 50% more BTU's. Hard to believe that I still have most of my hair.

[KnewYork]

Like I said, the OP didn't even know that it was a DX chiller. He should have been able to say to the maintenance people that there couldn't possibly be a restriction in the "chiller barrel tubing" because refrigerant is the only thing that flows through the tubes.

One of the things that causes the hard water chemicals to plate out is heat. That's why a condenser is far more likely to scale up. The heat of the discharge gas helps in the precipitation of the minerals in the water. I will tell you I am no water treatment specialist, but my SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) would be that it would take months. if not a year or more, for problems to show up on a closed loop chilled water system. Biologicals could present a whole different set of circumstances, but days or even weeks of running w/o chemicals would not, in my opinion, be sufficient enough to cause flow problems.