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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    94

    Confused replacing the air cooled to centrifugal chiller.

    Dears,

    We are planning to withdraw our 14 year old TRANE RTAA chiller 456 ton capacity (2 No chiller, each 228 ton total 456 ton,unit model RTAA 328) and replace with either same like air cooled chiller or new water cooled centrifugal chiller. We are advised by Mitsubishi to install ETI series 450 ton centrifugal chiller and the water cooled system shall have a power consumption of 0.8 KW against 1.6 KW the existing trane chiller. The additional investment of water cooled system can cover and pay back within 2.3 year by analyzing the local electrical and water cost. I would be interesting your valuable opinions,
    1. Is better to replace same brand air cooled chiller
    2. Comparison the centrifugal chillers of trane vs York vs Mitsubishi vs carrier.

    Regards
    Moideen-dubai

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    960
    my two cents, factor in chemical treatment and PM maintenance on all equipment to support this. But the pay back on either one is good.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Upstate SC
    Posts
    1,439
    Water treament will be a major focus. If preventative maintenance is an issue go air cooled. Much easier to clean coils then brush out condenser barrels.

    Sent from my ERIS using Tapatalk 2

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    1,998
    Quote Originally Posted by jdblack View Post
    Much easier to clean coils then brush out condenser barrels.

    Sent from my ERIS using Tapatalk 2
    That's a matter of opinion.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold.calm
    Posts
    5,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller View Post
    That's a matter of opinion.
    X2

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873
    moideen- One other thing to think about you could cut down on your maint. cost by using a McQuay WMC. There is no oil and KW/ ton is a lot better then .80, something to think about. -GEO
    Once in a while everything falls into place and I am able to move forward, most of the time it just falls all over the place and I can't go anywhere-GEO

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,114
    Quote Originally Posted by ga1279 View Post
    One other thing to think about you could cut down on your maint. cost by using a McQuay WMC. There is no oil and KW/ ton is a lot better then .80, something to think about.
    I think he's referring to total system kW. A York YK with VSD will do a whole lot better than .8 kW/ton as well. I think one of the problems with a Turbocor compressor in Dubai is the likelihood that it would run a full load more than it may here in the States. Turbocor compressors don't perform as well at full load as many of their competitors.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller View Post
    That's a matter of opinion.

    That's a matter of water treatment. With good water treatment, I've heard of units going year without beign brushed.

    Cooling towers in many climates need to be cleaned as often as condenser coils.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    960
    I don't understand how the pay back can be the same for both systems. I also, would not bet on the ROI to be 3 years. If they agree to get payed over the the time period they say it will take to get your ROI then they would have a vested interest in making sure they were right. (don't hold your breath) Every time i hear 3 year ROI i double it. I would forecast the next 5 years of water cost and electrical cost. if cost of water, and electrical goes up this would effect the ROI period. Unless you already added in the increases. DO you pay for sewage waste?

    Also, are there any other buildings in your area that has water cooled and are about the same size as yours? If so i would talk with them and get their input. Not sure of the water chemistry but, depending on the type of water you have towers can be the bane of your life.

    Personally i would stay with what you have and make repairs. I would imagine the capital cost comes out of your bottom line. Do repairs come out of common charges? if so why would you dump all that money in a new system? Just wondering, I would think if you took that money and properly invested it, the return would be greater than what you make on the savings over the next three years. -just saying. The ROI will always be there, whether you do it now or later. Unless they are making you a deal you cant refuse.




    anyway not to get to far off track. Overall not knowing all the little details. Unless the entire systems is failing i would make repairs. If you have the money and just want to save money and they really believe they can get you a 3 year ROI, Then that's great, all new equipment today will save money, much has changed over the last 10 years. But again, Who can support for the equipment your will buy. If there is no local support for this new equipment or there are only a few who can work on it, i would shy away.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Down by the river
    Posts
    1,628
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller View Post
    That's a matter of opinion.
    X3

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,114
    You might want to consider another manufacturer. I know of one (York) that does not require any scheduled overhaul interval and I have seen many compressors run over 75,000 without ever being opened.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873
    My apologies to one and all as I jumped the gun with my last post, I did not realize the area we were discussing. Water treatment will be costly as your make-up water will be high and fresh water is costly there to begin with. 14 years of life out in that climate, hell I've seen them in Houston that don't last that long.-GEO
    Once in a while everything falls into place and I am able to move forward, most of the time it just falls all over the place and I can't go anywhere-GEO

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,103
    I'll take tube-brushing over coil-cleaning any day!
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

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