The 50 $ Lesson....

[netsalt]

Salty, you speak with pure narcissism. As a retired paramedic, I can assure you the projects are FULL of Beemers, Volvos, Caddies, etc. These same people collect food stamps, WICK for babies, get free regional transportation, free healthcare,etc. and yes, they line up at the polls. I've run calls at the polls and see my same repeat customers there. They get their marching orders in church, at neighborhood rallies and meetings, at union halls and anywhere else they can. These people make sure they vote because it represents job security for them.

If you consider it narcissistic to help those less fortunate then so be it. I still stand by my statement that fraud is not as widespread as is portrayed. My success has not been as impressive as Barbar's but I too grew up in one of the worst projects in the NE and my success in life has been directly related to the help I received in my childhood. My experience is first hand and I can say with confidence that the money spent to provide help where it is needed has saved many lives from living lives of poverty. Any civilized nation provides for those less fortunate before providing the rich (sorry job creators) with tax breaks to amass more wealth.

[AStudent]

Well...I guess if you really look at it, your average working man might as well be on welfare too.

People on welfare only pay consumption tax no income tax, many working people pay income tax only to get it back in February...so are the majority of people ONLY paying consumption taxes?

[barbar]

So, eh, how did you make your millions?

Well first and foremost, my wealth, has shifted from money to quality of life (early years Money was my God, because I knew no other way of measurement)
Money wealth creation started at 17, the company (refrigeration) i worked for as an apprentice went belly up, and one of the large creditors was a large contraction refrigeration company, the old boss over sold my virtue,s (I was a good kid, but no highly skilled engineer) I got given a brand van, stocked and tooled and thrown in to the deep end of commercial and light industrial refrigeration. During this period, refrigeration was changing from single, mechanical refrigeration systems, to more complex rack, electronic systems. I was able to adapt some what quicker than some of the old engineers (I Know you guys use the word techs). So I did a hell of lot of overtime (pay was good back then), assisting the different skilled engineers, of whom I had picked their brains for what ever they could give me, they had no problems, as i was assisting them in fields they were unsure about. So no need for a car, plenty of cash in my pocket, I partied hard. My peers said, why party slightly less and buy a house. In 2 months had saved a deposit. On the property ladder, which give leverage for future years.
Left that company, went to work for a new called "ACME" which was a bit of an embarrassment. Just after starting my first love, dumped me, and I went into a dark place. The company sacked me, and rightly because my attitude stank. I hit the bottle, bummed around, but still kept my hand in, as many companies used my sevices (generally one who were trying to diversify) One company or i should the owner, could see the potential, gave me a bit cash to get away for a few weeks. The break I needed (came back almost enlightened). So this company promised a fixed number of hours, to ensure that a small business could survive, so I did his work, then went look for other work. I would work on any day, at any hour. Many Clients gave me the opportunity to do their work, even though they new I had very limited cover and business procedures. (some very big names) these clients also ensured rapid payment of bills. (which is a big help) Over time I employed a few, then purchased the original company who assisted me (with fiscal help from the owner). Diversified the type of refrigeration I did, look into niche markets, higher risk engineering (bigger "no hugh margins" margins, bought a couple companies. Dabbled in buying defunct comanpies basically asset stripping (not the big stuff like you see on TV)This was easy because of the large contact bases that I knew. Worked 18hrs day for 7years (only had a total 30 days off, including weekends, sick days, honeymoon, weddding, xmas and so on) Basically burning my self out. The business was growing so was the stress ( I am not a good businessman, as I let the business control my life, not the other way around) I retrench the business, net profit did not really change, but turnover and GP dropped dramatically. Decided that life is more important than money, I had a bit by then (certainly no Bill gates), Made I life style choice, set I time frame, sold the business for what ever i could get within that time frame. (Sold for a song to a real "A" hole.)
So at this time made another to cover all future life time needs, but i thank my all those who helped me on my way, especially those who worked for me, who portrayed the same work ethic and commitment I had at that time. I hopefully returned to them what they gave me, as i did help a number them set up their own businesses (no money reward in it for me) Of whom some are now more successful than i ever was. ( I still call them my boys, as we laugh in their sports cars)
So I hired and fired many, but I only have one regret about those who I have employed. Twas a young man, reminded me of myself, shirt was out zip was undone, bright, eager and signs of intelligence. He worked for me for 6 months, but was sickly, lack in physical energy, what you would a down and out. So i did have to give him the boot. Six months later I found out that he did not actually live at home, he lived in one of his parents flats (appartments), they were charging him full rent (he was being paid minimum wage by me, business is business), he had enough money to buy, a packet of minute noddles every day, any other food he got, was when he was working out of town with his seniors (we had old fashion rule the boss always pays when working with a Boss (manager,owner supervisor). If I had known his situation, i could of helped, either directly or through govt funding programs that, were set up to cover this exact situation. This young fellow was no Bum, he would of better being homeless whilst working for me, than being screw by his immoral parents. I and others from the company helped him get back into the trade, sorted the rent issue for him.
So at the end of the day not much difference to most of the guys on here, a bit of good luck, a bit hard work and lots of influence and opportunity form those around me.
Nowadays I make some money and then i loose some money, its only money, "no pockets in shrouds"

[ControlsInMT]

Good on you for being a success. I hope you thanked those who assisted you.

If you like personal stories i will give you mine, I was up brought in the UK most violent city,and went that cities worst school, my father died when I was young and left us with no money. i was more than likely i troubled kid. But a couple teachers could see, a spark in the confusion. The effort given by others to guide me down a track, meant that I have employed 100,s paid millions in Tax, was able to retire at 29 years of age. (of which i could not handle so i continue to dabble) and able to travel around the globe many times.

So do not tell me that I sit back and blame everyone else.

I agree with hand out are not the solution, but a hand up is.

If you actually read my original response, I actually agreed with the moral of story. However the life is no so simple. I simply showed a couple of pure practical points.

I do not live in the Greastest, Wealthiest country in the world, so large scale homelessness (excluding recent earthquake issues) is just not seen. (Not to say there is none)

Based on the other post of how NZ handles their unemployed, its sounds like we should send our worthless Congress down to take some lessons!

Although I must admit, you are either jealous of the USA or your sarcastic comments truely are annoying....

[ControlsInMT]

If you consider it narcissistic to help those less fortunate then so be it. I still stand by my statement that fraud is not as widespread as is portrayed. My success has not been as impressive as Barbar's but I too grew up in one of the worst projects in the NE and my success in life has been directly related to the help I received in my childhood. My experience is first hand and I can say with confidence that the money spent to provide help where it is needed has saved many lives from living lives of poverty. Any civilized nation provides for those less fortunate before providing the rich (sorry job creators) with tax breaks to amass more wealth.

But the difference Net, between you and the career welfare receipents are you chose to take the handout and improve your life. A lot of them do not make this decision. You can claim the fraud is small if that makes you feel bettter. Most people know it's not. Take a look around sometime. How many of these people have cell phones, big screen tvs, newer cars than most of us, name brand clothes, etc.?

How many are looking for work? How many are willing to work? It's been said on here many times yet it seems to be ignored, most of what the "middle class" has is not necessary for life or to raise a family. They are luxurys. Do the kids need a $200 video game system and ten games at $50 a pop? No! Do we each need two or three vehicles? No! The difference is the "middle class" is working for those things. Why should I pay for a Iphone for somebody refusing to work?

[netsalt]

But the difference Net, between you and the career welfare receipents are you chose to take the handout and improve your life. A lot of them do not make this decision. You can claim the fraud is small if that makes you feel bettter. Most people know it's not. Take a look around sometime. How many of these people have cell phones, big screen tvs, newer cars than most of us, name brand clothes, etc.?

How many are looking for work? How many are willing to work? It's been said on here many times yet it seems to be ignored, most of what the "middle class" has is not necessary for life or to raise a family. They are luxurys. Do the kids need a $200 video game system and ten games at $50 a pop? No! Do we each need two or three vehicles? No! The difference is the "middle class" is working for those things. Why should I pay for a Iphone for somebody refusing to work?

Actually the government assistance I received was Social security and VA benefits as a minor just like the GOP VP candidate. The difference being I remember where I came from and appreciate the help given to me by one of these horrible big government "entitlement programs" whereas Ryan uses it to show he is just one of us but forgets what it is like to truly BE one of us. Are there abuses in the system? Of course, but do we scrap the entire system or improve on what is in place. The GOP stance appears to be to scrap the system and basically throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[ControlsInMT]

But yet any changes that are mentioned the Dems scream bloody murder about. So how about a time limit on them? How about simple task requirements like Barbar mentioned?

[barbar]

Based on the other post of how NZ handles their unemployed, its sounds like we should send our worthless Congress down to take some lessons!

Although I must admit, you are either jealous of the USA or your sarcastic comments truely are annoying....

I would say the biggest difference between the systems, is not left or right (as we have both, a good thing), is that we do not accept corruption. (not to say there in none), and hold our representatives responsible.

Personally I do not support a political party, like I would support a sports team, The sports team, I follow blindly and with 100% loyalty, For a political to earn my vote, it must offer policies that I feel are more important than the other parties. The name of the party has no importance.
So I am swinging voter (we have slightly different voting system, so it does allow me a greater choice in how I vote, in effect I can vote for more than one party. In the last election my party vote was right, but the candidate vote was left, because the local candidate works extremly hard for his constituents.
I think I am just truly annoying!

[Six]

Fraud is overlooked and by all accounts its encouraged. The dream act is a good example. The illegals that come forward do not have to provide any proof to qualify.

The Fed says they dont have the rescources but hire 20k new IRS agents to impliment Obamacare.

Democrats know the more people that are dependant the more people are likely to vote for them.

[Milk man]

Well first and foremost, my wealth, has shifted from money to quality of life (early years Money was my God, because I knew no other way of measurement)
Money wealth creation started at 17, the company (refrigeration) i worked for as an apprentice went belly up, and one of the large creditors was a large contraction refrigeration company, the old boss over sold my virtue,s (I was a good kid, but no highly skilled engineer) I got given a brand van, stocked and tooled and thrown in to the deep end of commercial and light industrial refrigeration. During this period, refrigeration was changing from single, mechanical refrigeration systems, to more complex rack, electronic systems. I was able to adapt some what quicker than some of the old engineers (I Know you guys use the word techs). So I did a hell of lot of overtime (pay was good back then), assisting the different skilled engineers, of whom I had picked their brains for what ever they could give me, they had no problems, as i was assisting them in fields they were unsure about. So no need for a car, plenty of cash in my pocket, I partied hard. My peers said, why party slightly less and buy a house. In 2 months had saved a deposit. On the property ladder, which give leverage for future years.
Left that company, went to work for a new called "ACME" which was a bit of an embarrassment. Just after starting my first love, dumped me, and I went into a dark place. The company sacked me, and rightly because my attitude stank. I hit the bottle, bummed around, but still kept my hand in, as many companies used my sevices (generally one who were trying to diversify) One company or i should the owner, could see the potential, gave me a bit cash to get away for a few weeks. The break I needed (came back almost enlightened). So this company promised a fixed number of hours, to ensure that a small business could survive, so I did his work, then went look for other work. I would work on any day, at any hour. Many Clients gave me the opportunity to do their work, even though they new I had very limited cover and business procedures. (some very big names) these clients also ensured rapid payment of bills. (which is a big help) Over time I employed a few, then purchased the original company who assisted me (with fiscal help from the owner). Diversified the type of refrigeration I did, look into niche markets, higher risk engineering (bigger "no hugh margins" margins, bought a couple companies. Dabbled in buying defunct comanpies basically asset stripping (not the big stuff like you see on TV)This was easy because of the large contact bases that I knew. Worked 18hrs day for 7years (only had a total 30 days off, including weekends, sick days, honeymoon, weddding, xmas and so on) Basically burning my self out. The business was growing so was the stress ( I am not a good businessman, as I let the business control my life, not the other way around) I retrench the business, net profit did not really change, but turnover and GP dropped dramatically. Decided that life is more important than money, I had a bit by then (certainly no Bill gates), Made I life style choice, set I time frame, sold the business for what ever i could get within that time frame. (Sold for a song to a real "A" hole.)
So at this time made another to cover all future life time needs, but i thank my all those who helped me on my way, especially those who worked for me, who portrayed the same work ethic and commitment I had at that time. I hopefully returned to them what they gave me, as i did help a number them set up their own businesses (no money reward in it for me) Of whom some are now more successful than i ever was. ( I still call them my boys, as we laugh in their sports cars)
So I hired and fired many, but I only have one regret about those who I have employed. Twas a young man, reminded me of myself, shirt was out zip was undone, bright, eager and signs of intelligence. He worked for me for 6 months, but was sickly, lack in physical energy, what you would a down and out. So i did have to give him the boot. Six months later I found out that he did not actually live at home, he lived in one of his parents flats (appartments), they were charging him full rent (he was being paid minimum wage by me, business is business), he had enough money to buy, a packet of minute noddles every day, any other food he got, was when he was working out of town with his seniors (we had old fashion rule the boss always pays when working with a Boss (manager,owner supervisor). If I had known his situation, i could of helped, either directly or through govt funding programs that, were set up to cover this exact situation. This young fellow was no Bum, he would of better being homeless whilst working for me, than being screw by his immoral parents. I and others from the company helped him get back into the trade, sorted the rent issue for him.
So at the end of the day not much difference to most of the guys on here, a bit of good luck, a bit hard work and lots of influence and opportunity form those around me.
Nowadays I make some money and then i loose some money, its only money, "no pockets in shrouds"

So you made millions of dollars between the age of say 19 and 29.

Please keep your answer a lot shorter than above. I read it once, but not sure what you said. Something about buying and selling a couple of companies and working 24/7/365?

[barbar]

So you made millions of dollars between the age of say 19 and 29.

Please keep your answer a lot shorter than above. I read it once, but not sure what you said. Something about buying and selling a couple of companies and working 24/7/365?

OK, i was grease monkey who worked lots of hours, along with a number of other staff, who by working made me some money.

[barbar]

Or another way
Lets say I made $10 net profit per hour per man, my guys were working 2500hrs a year (plus what I was doing), lets say for ease I had 10 engineers, work out the maths.

[Milk man]

Or another way
Lets say I made $10 net profit per hour per man, my guys were working 2500hrs a year (plus what I was doing), lets say for ease I had 10 engineers, work out the maths.

I guess someone gave you influence and opportunity. But who made the difference?