ReplyI'd suggest the one with the EC license. Always better to be safe then sorry.
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I have two different A/C contractors under consideration for replacement of the 3.5 ton 12-year old Rheem system in my 1837sf lakefront single story Florida retirement home built in 1980. I grew up in the neighborhood but have been away working for the Government for the past 40+ years.
Among the 8 or 9 contractors I invited to bid, I dismissed those who were either morons, textbook salesmen, or otherwise unconcerned with what I wanted in MY house. This was after I’d narrowed down my choices and only called those who’d been in business over 20 years and had an A+ BBB rating.
I've pretty much decided on Trane equipment and both contractors under consideration are Trane comfort specialists who seem to know the equipment and have offered me options, leaving the choice up to me.... not trying to push me into buying something just to make a sale. That’s what I like about both, and they're fairly close in pricing of the various options and have both offered the Trane fall rebates coming next week without my having to inquire. They both identified the need to add a return without my having to suggest it, where most of the others didn’t even look until I brought it up.
My concern is that one of my contractor choices also has a license as an electrical contractor, but the other does not. Both have included electrical modifications in their bids. For example, the wiring from my breaker panel to the air handler is currently aluminum. It must be replaced with copper and POSSIBLY the breaker might have to be changed to a different amperage, depending on which equipment I choose. My home wiring is already copper, and I had the old Federal Pacific panel and main replaced last year. It wasn’t cheap, so I'm concerned when anyone talks about messing with the panel. The other electrical mod would be replacement of the old, corroded outdoor disconnect and possibly changing the size of wiring to the panel and upgrading the 24 volt wiring.
The one contractor with the EC license told me he's authorized to do the electrical, but said if I go with another company without the EC license, I'd have to hire an electrician in addition to an A/C contractor. He had me speak to the county licensing office and she confirmed that the other contractor did not have the license required for “running whips” or otherwise modifying my electric.
When I asked the other contractor without the EC license, he told me he's authorized to do limited electrical, such as wiring to the existing electrical breaker box. He said I could call the county to verify. I do intend to call next week and maybe I’ll get a different answer by speaking to someone different from the other contractor’s “contact” at the licensing office, if you get my drift.
Do any of the pro's here know whether I should trust the guy with the EC license over the guy without it? The licensed guy knows who the other guy is and told me he's been "written up" a number of times for doing electrical work, as have the other A/C guys in the county whenever they "get caught".
Advise, please. Do I trust the tattletale with the EC license, or the other guy without it?
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I'd suggest the one with the EC license. Always better to be safe then sorry.
Regular Member
Thanks. I was leaning in that direction anyway, but I wanted to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt and consider what the pro's on this board have to say.Originally Posted by JEG8233
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Depends on the location. We're not allowed to change breakers here or even hook up the whip from the disconnect so that's subed out to an electrician. The electrical work is included in the bid though.
Regular Member
Interesting. The one contractor with the EC license has told me an A/C contractor can't sub the electric unless he's also a general contractor, which no one in the county is except him. He's saying the electrical work can't be in the A/C contractor's bid unless he's overseeing the work, which he can't do unless he has an EC license or is licensed as a general contractor. He also said he sits on the county board (the exact title escapes me now) and doesn't know why the A/C contractors insist on bidding electric AND doing it themselves when they keep getting in trouble for it.
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In Washington State, contractors that do HVAC are allowed to go from the Disconnect to the outdoor unit for electrical but not from the breaker panel to the disconnect.
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North Carolina one can have what they call a limited electrical license. It allows me to go from panel to equipment pertaining to the permit.
Without it I can not touch the high voltage. When I pull a permit for hvac I pay for an electrical permit, my resposibility... I then hire a sparky to perform work amd he signs off on permit.
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Last edited by beenthere; 08-13-2012 at 05:37 AM. Reason: Non Pro * Member
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I think that's part of what the guy with the EC license was trying to tell me. But he indicated changing the wiring from the air handler to the breaker panel would also require an electrician.
What the guy without the EC license told me was that his license allows him to run wiring to the first point of disconnect for the electric, which in the case of new wiring to the air handler would be the breaker in the panel. This would allow him to install copper wire to replace the old aluminum wiring from the panel to the air handler. He also said he has a licensed electrician who works with him who would do any work requiring an electrician "by code". Basicly, he asked me to trust that he would make sure the electric work was done right by a properly licensed individual. His not being a general contractor or holding an EC license himself, I'm not sure he can do that... ensure it's done right, that is.
Regular Member
I intend to call the county next week. I was a little concerned about the EC guy bashing a fellow AC guy for his history of bypassing code requirements, but I'm glad it led me to investigate the issue.
Regular Member
Thanks. That's another issue I'll discuss with the county when I call next week... whether an electrical permit has to be pulled for an HVAC job, who is allowed (or required) to pull that permit, and who can sign off when the job is done.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
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Look at your Florida Code section 489.105 for Air conditioning contractors class A,B, and C.
A and B can hook up to existing load side of disconnect but can not run from service panel to disconnect. C is service only
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Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 08-13-2012 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Non AOP member
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Ask what the county code guys would do about an A/C contractor that, because there was no open place for a breaker, the A/C guys bypassed the main disconnect & connected directly to the conductors coming from the meter & the 600-Amp fused main supply transformer.
Those small conductors were not even placed in conduit, they looped around in the basement & connected to a fused breaker box there &, then ran to the outdoor disconnect near the condenser.
Have you ever heard of a worse violation of the EC Code?
There was a fused 220-volt conductor running to the living room to a 1.5-Ton window unit; the central condenser is 1.5-Ton & pulls a lot less amps than the window unit pulled which they no longer use.
They could have used the breaker location or run those conductors to the outdoor disconnect by the condenser.
So someone trips the main breaker off & think the power to the basement breaker box is killed or, that power to the A/C condenser is killed, instead they may be electrocuted/killed. A hidden death trap...
This was out in the country with NO inspection permits pulled...
Have you ever heard of a worse violation of the EC Code?
Last edited by udarrell; 08-13-2012 at 12:41 PM. Reason: out in the country with NO inspection permits pulled
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udarrell
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Forgive me... I don't want to be rude... but I don't see how this response has any bearing on my situation or helps to answer my question. Thanks anyway.
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He was implying that individuals that do work without permits can put you and your home in jeopardy.
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Duh?! I know that! Did he read my post that opened this thread? That's why I asked the question about qualifications in the first place.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Or maybe he was trying to reply to another thread, and replied to this one by mistake.
Don't crucify those that are trying to help.
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